AN EX-WORD FAITH PREACHER Comes Full Circle: From Baptist, to Baptist bashing Word of faith Preacher and back to Baptist. w/ What does the WoF think about Theologians? OPINION POLL

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AN EX-WORD FAITH PREACHER Comes Full Circle: From Baptist, to Baptist bashing Word of faith Preacher and back to Baptist. Go figure

About a month ago I was blessed to have an Ex-Word of faith preacher visit this site. I have posted a couple of his writings from his Blog and have talked with him via email and telephone. AS He and his site are totally awesome. I will be interviewing John Edwards sometimes this week and will have it up for downloading and listening soon after.

I encourage you to visit John’s site. He says he wants to make his Blog into a Book. I believe it will make an excellent book. John needs someone to help him with editing as he wants to self publish. If you or anyone you know has editing talent and would like to help Pastor John. Please give him an e-mail. Faithpreacher.blogspot.com

Here is three of his post that would make a good chapter together. I HOPE YOU FIND HIS STORY AS INTERESTING AS ME. DON’T MISS Johns video above.

I have a short comment AND OPINION POLL at the end.

 

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My Journey Has Come Full Circle

It sure feels good to be a regular guy. That is what I like the most about my new life. I work hard all day with my hands, so my mind has plenty of time to reflect. There are some things that are just now dawning on me. Things are becoming clear, and the purpose of this whole last year is coming into focus.

I was born and raised in the Southern Baptist Church. As soon as I became a teenager, I started going on youth retreats with elements of Briarwood Presbyterian Church. While on the yearly retreats to Gatlinburg, I became a disciple of a guy named Chuck Jones. I attended all of his Bible studies at UAB until I backslid and joined the Marine Corps.

Looking back on my life and my faith, I had been Baptist/Presbyterian all of my life. The teachings of John Calvin and Martin Luther made up my spiritual core.

A lot of my friends were Charismatic, but I always shied away from them when it came to tongues. You know why? Cause they bragged on it and the great power that came with it, but they were involved in all kinds of sexual sin. I could not see any difference between them and me.

I married a girl that was raised Roman Catholic and then became a Charismatic. We would argue over beer and theology for years. She wanted us to attend a Charismatic church so after a few years of not being in church, we went. It was a Charismatic church in Roebuck. A fight broke out right in the middle of the service! I left there convinced that all Charismatics were loony and unstable.

As a Marine, and a Police officer I stayed backslid. I went to church twice in ten years. I was still very Calvinistic in my faith. I was not afraid of being killed on duty. I knew that my days were numbered in Heaven and that nothing could change the Providence of God. I pretty much had no worries in life.

Then in 1994 my wife was exposed to the AIDS virus, and her pregnancy with Brian had some complications. Someone gave me a Kenneth Hagin book. Here was a new religion that promised health, wealth, miracles, supernatural power and all of my prayers answered exactly as I desired with one catch: I just needed to have faith. So that began a 14 year ride on the wild side. Went from being a happy backslidden Calvinist, to a tongue talking, devil stomping, faith healing, scripture speaking, believe ye receive it fanatic. I was so on fire about the Faith Message that I forsook all and headed to Tulsa.

I sat in class at Tulsa hearing about miracles, signs and wonders every single day! All I had to do was to keep sowing seed, be faithful, not criticize, tithe, make the right confessions, speak the right scriptures, listen to all the Cd’s on faith, attend prosperity seminars, faith seminars, special Holy Ghost meetings, laughter meeting, prophetic meetings, special anointed meetings, etc, etc.

I did all of this stuff for fourteen years. It is a bunch of hype. I never saw a miracle, never saw a true healing of a serious disease, never saw the big harvest, never had what I confessed, never felt the goosebumps. Why? Because, 90% of all things Charismatic are HYPE. A bunch of made up stuff, far fetched testimonies, hearsay, and plenty of bad doctrine from loopy people that never went to a reputable seminary. I saw a lot of emotion and a lot of hype. I never saw the Charismatic Word of Faith message work for anyone but the Big Dawgs on TV.

Finally, God opened my eyes to all the junk and error, and led me right back to my spiritual roots of Calvinism. I am back where I started!

But why did I take that wrong exit into that strange and dangerous neighborhood

Because God has a plan bigger than my plan. He wanted me to see the hype and the deception from inside.

Thank God for His care, to rescue from deception and hype, and to bring me back to the True Gospel of the Bible.

I saw a billboard advertising one of the popular recently divorced charismatic word of faith televangelist coming to town and grieved. I thought about how many poor and desperate folks would show up for her meetings, sow their best seed and leave with nothing. It is sad. She will laugh all the way to the bank. I guess they will have to find out for themselves. God is in control, not man.

I advise everyone that reads this blog, to find a good church that teaches Reformed Theology, because that is the theology that Christ and Paul taught. Find yourself a Southern Baptist Church that is Reformed, or find a Presbyterian Church and plug in. And if anyone ever invites you to a Word of Faith church, run like Forrest Gump! Run Forrest Run!

http://faithpreacher.blogspot.com/2008/10/my-journey-has-come-full-circle.html

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When I was Baptist

I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church and was very happy in it. I stayed backslid a lot but I loved God and had a tremendous amount of faith in Him. When I was a Baptist I truly believed in the Sovereignty Of God and that He was in total control of my life. I believed that I was eternally saved and that I could never, ever loose my salvation and my relationship with Him no matter how bad I blew it. When I was a Baptist I believed that God had a specific plan and that nothing could ever hinder it. I believed that my steps were ordered of Him and that no matter what God was going to have His way. When I was a Baptist I believed that there was a time written in God’s Providence for me to die and that nothing could change that. I believed that my days were numbered according to His will and purpose. When I was Baptist I was very aware of God’s Awesomeness and my inability. When I was Baptist I was afraid of God in a respectful way. When I was a Baptist I wanted to run things past God before I did them. When I was Baptist I was very concerned about lost people going to Hell. When I was a Baptist I never, ever doubted His existence or His love for me. When I was a Baptist I believed that God was in control of all events in my life and that even the bad ones were some how working for my favor.

When I was a Baptist I had peace and joy. When I was a Baptist my focus was on Jesus.
Then I started reading Word of Faith books. I read every book that I could find. I listened to hundreds of tapes and Cd’s. I was excited about the Word of Faith message. It put me in control of my life. Having been in the Marine Corps and having been a Police Officer, I was used to being in charge of things. I was used to being the Boss. It was a perfect way of thinking for me. The Word of Faith promised me a sickness free life, a long life, and a rich life. It promised me that I could use my words to frame my world. It taught me that I could speak whatever I wanted into existence. The Word of Faith taught me how to get a vision and write it out. It taught me to speak things out and to shoot for the stars. The Word of Faith promised me power and authority of everything in my life and that I could create and rule my world and circumstances with my words.The Word of Faith left God and His Sovereignty out of the picture. All I had to do was to speak and believe what I wanted, money, health, fame, success, the power was in my tongue. The Word of Faith taught me that I was the one responsible for everything that I had in life, that everything in my life was a result of words, good or bad. I learned that I could have what I said. I learned how to twist and manipulate entire passages of the Bible to line it up with health, wealth and victory. I learned how to debunk the whole book of Job. I learned how to get rich God’s way, by planting money seeds and speaking words of prosperity. I learned to ignore symptoms in my body and to think of the pains as lies of the devil.

I lived and believed like this for fourteen years. I taught this for eight years.

I will tell you what the Word of Faith message did for me. It turned me into a self-centered person more concerned with my plans and needs than anything else. Instead of trusting in God I began to trust in my words and in my faith. I dummy downed God. I thought God had to follow my rules of confession. I thought I could boss God around and talk Him into seeing things my way. I became obsessed with myself. I became full of pride. I also began to sink into depression and darkness. The Word of Faith had taught me that it was all about me and that I was in control and that everything good was riding on my faith and confession. Needless to say, I was putting so much pressure on myself to believe that I was miserable. All of the faith formulas and prayer rules that I had learned in the Word of Faith had me so bound in legalistic chains that I could no longer pray or talk to God. I was miserable. God got smaller and smaller in my thinking because I was the one in charge. I stayed frustrated and aggravated because my confessions were not working and my prayers went unanswered. Even worse was that I was teaching hundreds of people the same message and they were having the same results. They still had sickness and lack and problems.

they to began to spiral down into depression and burn out from trying to be perfect in their confessions and acts of faith.

It is a false message. It is cultic. It destroys the concept of God that He wants us to have.
Praise God for His patience and love for me! God has opened my eyes and rescued me from myself and this false religion! I have returned to my roots. I have abandoned the Word of Faith and returned to the Word of God and my relationship with Him. For me God is in control again. His will be done. I am feeling alive again. I can feels God’s love again. I am trusting fully in Him and His ability and in His plan. He is in control. He is on the throne. He is my God again!

http://faithpreacher.blogspot.com/2008/07/when-i-was-baptist.html

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Naming Names and Baptist Bashing

I have been accused of naming names and bashing the Word of Faith Movement. I have been accused of not walking in love. A lot of people I know think Jesus walked around like a sissy. A lot of people I know wouldn’t like Jesus if they ever heard him preach. Jesus was full of love and rebuke. He named names. He called a spade a spade. He was very confrontational. He even bull whipped some folks at church one day, with a whip he made! He called Herod a “Fox” which was slang for homosexual. He called his critics snakes. Love in action.

The Apostle Paul, who wrote the “Love” chapter named names. He would call false teachers by their names and have the letter read out loud to the church.
The Apostle of Love, John, named names.

It is a minister’s right and moral obligation to point out false teachers and false doctrine. A pastor is responsible for his flock. If he sees his flock flirting with the wolves then it is his job to point out the wolf. Love will point out danger.

Paul told Timothy to rebuke with all authority.

Christians are scared to speak out these days. Any time some one does speak out against error they are rebuked for not walking in love.

When I was a Word of Faith teacher, I loved to bash the Baptist Church. I learned how to do this from my main teacher in Bible school. He loved to poke fun at the Baptist. Bless their “darling hearts” and “stupid heads.” Many Word of Faith ministers trash the Baptist. But let someone criticise Kenneth Hagin and all of a sudden the love walk is brought up.

Many Word of Faith people feel vastly superior to the Baptist. When I was a WOFer, I looked down on the Baptist as missing out on the promises and power of God. Over the years it finally dawned on me that our lives were no better than theirs. We were confessing things, believing things, claiming things and calling things that be not as though they were and going no where in a hurry. At the same time the Baptist were doing just fine with out the faith message.

Have you ever noticed that Word of Faith people that claim healing still have to use doctors and medicine just like the powerless Baptist? Did you know that Word of Faith people that claim the baptism of the Holy Ghost and the blessing of praying in tongues still make stupid decisions and fall into deception and false doctrine? Have you also noticed that the Word of Faith people that claim so much revelation knowledge about the Word of God have no more power than the Baptist? They are no more wiser, no more holy and no better off in any way. I have also noticed that although so much emphasis is placed on prosperity, the Word of Faith people are no richer!

I remember visiting a tiny Word of Faith church in Mississippi. We were out in the parking lot burning with envy at the gigantic Baptist Mega Church across the street. That Baptist church was always full of people and money and people getting saved, But they did not have near the revelation knowledge that we had. What was wrong?

By the way, the term revelation knowledge is really a charismatic term referring to special knowledge about God unknowable to Baptist because the Baptist refuse the baptism. What it usually is though is some hokey nonsense doctrine put out by someone on TBN anyhow.

I guess my point is that when I was Word of Faith we loved to criticise and bash denominational Christians and felt vastly superior to them. We were big on love until it came to bashing others. Now that I am pointing out error in the Word of Faith, all of a sudden the table is turned and I’m no longer walking in love. Go figure!

http://faithpreacher.blogspot.com/2008/08/naming-names-and-baptist-bashing.html

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I have to smile when I read this. I have an aunt who is a word faith preacher and I as a Baptist catch grief because of that LOL. It not just Baptist though. They don’t like any “HALF GOSPEL CHURCH”

One day my Aunt told me. “Damon, you’re a very talented theologian. In fact your so talented and knowledgeable about theology that you should be a teacher of theologians.”

Now I will ask you all

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Even though I have been negatively affected by other Cults and false teachings, since before I knew what a Cult and False teaching was, I am going to use MY WORDS TO HEAL those deluded by the WoF movement. Because the WoF teaching that faith is a force is not only a false teaching, But also A VERY DANGEROUS and sometimes deadly OCCULTIC PARADIGM SHIFT.

So I have decided (willed) to USE THE POWER OF MY WORDS to heal you. I will be constantly Chanting YOUR HEALED,YOUR HEALED, YOUR HEALED. So don’t make any negative confessions, least Thee over power my positive confessions, JUST RECEIVE AND BE HEALED. 

You know I am just joking, being sarcastic and a little facetious right?

 

But If I weren’t, think of the ramifications of the idea that words have magical creative power.

 

We hear Word of Faith believers say “Life and death is in the power of the tongue” BUT THAT DON’T MEAN that actions don’t have consequences, AND WORDS are more powerful than WHAT WE DO, and sometimes think. Just think how delusional and illogical the idea is that words have more power than our actions do.

 

The first thing we learn as a Kid is that actions have consequences. If we stick our finger in the fire, we find the fire is HOT, not because someone SAID FIRE IS HOT, but because fire is hot by it’s nature. As a baby,,, we cannot even understand our parents say the fire is Hot. And fire was hot WAY BEFORE cavemen quit grunting and grumbling and started talking. And we usually don’t find the real power in words until we use the wrong words, on the wrong people,,, and get a bop on the nose for it. Our words have some power, but not literal creative power.

And certainly God could have created everything,,, without a single word, because He IS GOD. THE Creator. 

Man has never created anything Ex-nihilo (out of nothing), much less with mere words. Although words can uplift, encourage and build self esteem, and our words can insult, degrade and devalue a person. Words have never actually killed anyone. It is impossible to die from saying “I am laughing myself to death”

Have you ever noticed that ALL BRIDGES ARE SLIPPERY WHEN WET? Even if they don’t have a warning sign saying so. OR SOMEBODY SAID SO. Have you ever noticed that in contradiction against the obvious implications of the Word of Faith teaching,,, deaf and speaking impaired people get sick and have problems that RESULT FROM THEIR ACTIONS,,,,, not words TOO?

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WHO SPOKE THE MAJIC WORD FIRST? 

In other words, WHERE DOES THE IDEA THAT WORDS HAVE POWER COME FROM?

If you seek out the answer to this question, you will find that the WoF teaching comes from Kenneth Haggin, who got it from EW Kenyon, who in turn got it from Mary Baker Eddy (of Christian Science) through Charles Emory. And Mary Baker Eddy got the words have power teaching from Phineas Qumby, the Father of New Thought or Mind Science .

There is a few things you should know about Mr. Quimby before you continue to try and create realities with your words.

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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Quimby

Phineas Quimby was known as a philosopher, magnetizer, mesmerist, healer, and scientist. Quimby’s focus of attention was philosophy of mind, on which he held the dualist position. (See also Cartesian dualism).

He approached the mind-body problem by reasoning that mind was “spiritual matter”, observing that man “exists outside himself,” and that mind and body, although of two different natures, interact with each other.

Quimby claimed that disease is not the cause of illness, but the effect of a conflict existing within the mind; he claimed that all mental and most physical diseases were the result of faulty reasoning. He said “the explanation is the cure.”

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The above WiKipedia article also says that Mrs. Eddy was a patient of Mr. Quimby’s and shared his view that disease is rooted in a mental causation. The Article also tries to claim that Quimby did not mix his “System of healing” with religion. But Quimby’s own words prove otherwise.  http://www.phineasquimby.com/concerning_use_medicine.html

From the article above, Mr Quimby was a philosophical dualist who said “Medicine contains nothing to me, except as an effect – and if a patient believes he must use it, I sometimes allow him to do so; but I always tell him the cure is in himself (or in his belief), and not in the medicine.”

Philosophical dualism states that matter and mind are different. Mind is more akin to Spirit than Matter. So when Quimby would assert that “the cure is in himself (or in his belief)”,,, he was basically saying that Mind is a spiritual force that can be “tapped into” or manipulated, if you just “think rightly“, to affect sickness and disease.

WHAT ARE WORDS? Expression of thought.

Words ARE NOT a tool to manipulate a so called “force of faith” as so many Word of Faith teachers arrogantly proclaim. 

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WORDS ARE FOR WITCHES (silly rabbit) and God is for Christians

I read every article I post on this blog and probably 5-6 articles for every 1 that I do post. Many WoF expose articles will show the origins of this false teaching to go back to EW. Kenyon. Some trace it further back to Marry Baker Eddy and some go back to Quimby. But most fail to show the real source of the teaching. Satan and the Occult.

Yes,, there are many articles that show the WoF teaching of positive confession to be the same as the occultic New Age “Law of Attraction”. And anyone can see the similarities of the NEW AGE Mega-book “THE SECRET” AND the WoF teachings.

A few articles rightfully mention that the WoF teachings is akin to witchcraft without quoting any witches. Looking at the definitions of Magic, Spells and Incantation will show the WoF is witchcraft like And many article list quotes from Prominent Word of faith teachers saying that “if the occult can get results out this force of faith,, why can’t Gods children?“ Don’t that show JUST a little (wee) bit of a lack of discernment.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GO FURTHER THAN THAT.

Because my Uncle is a Mormon Bishop and because Joseph Smith was a Freemason, I have studied the Occult extensively. Witchcraft and other forms of the Occult IS ALL ABOUT POWER. People don’t become witches to make their parents angry. NO THEY WANT THE POWER TO CONTROL THEIR LIFES AND OTHERS.

Instead of throwing themselves to the mercy of a sovereign God and living life to please him. They seek to manipulate their reality with “spiritual forces”. But as Jesus said, “Father, If it be thy will” is what Christians should pray. God only gives us WHAT HE WILLS. No matter what we ask for?

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STRAIGHT FROM THE WITCHES MOUTH 

Here is some text from a website on witchcraft.

http://www.witchcraft-magick.com/ 

“Mankind has always attempted to know the unknowable and control it by his own actions. At the same time, it was recognized that there were powers beyond his ability to control. Throughout history, certain people have been accepted as being better at controlling the powers that represent natural forces such as earthquake, wind, flood,fire and disease.

In some cases, these powers were named as gods or goddesses, at other times the forces themselves were named and summoned and controlled by the will of humans known as witches in modern day language.

The power possessed by a witch or shaman skilled in the art and working of witchcraft was assumed to be almost limitless. By saying certain words or power names in the correct manner and correct tone of voice, the witch could heal the ill, and cast out the evil spirits which caused pain and suffering in those who were diseased.

Inanimate nature also obeyed the words of witchcraft and even the creation of the world itself was through a spoken word. The words could tear the earth apart and make water pile up in a heap and even the sun could be stopped in its course by a word uttered in witchcraft.”

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Witchcraft vs Christianity; Learn the similarities and differences of the two 

“The differences between the Christian and witchcraft viewpoint is the difference between being citizens of a society which takes an active role to shape and mold the structure of society or subjects of a society which has the connotation of subordination to the larger group for the benefit of all.

A similar term with very different meanings between Christian and pagan understandings of the word is “self-control”. To those practicing witchcraft they believe that they are the one who has full control over the actions. They do not surrender to another except under very brief, special and voluntary circumstances. Self-control means taking charge, making all decisions relating to oneself, doing anything so long as it doesn’t hurt someone else. 

The witch views control as the act of intentionally and positively directing the will toward the achievement of positive goals. The underlying assumption with the witch’s view of self control is that man is inherently valuable, and can achieve good and beneficial ends through the use of will power.”

http://www.witchcraft-magick.com/christianity.html

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EVEN WITCHES DON’T HAVE FAITH IN FAITH 

“People who are just beginning witchcraft don’t have the understanding or the ability to actually practice medicine, but witchcraft is the belief system which is outstripping all others in popularity. It is expected that young people who are practicing witches may soon be preparing for degrees in medical fields and thus improve the chances of being healed through witchcraft as well as more mainstream means and medications.

Modern scientists have documented the term called the placebo effect. When some people receive healing from illnesses which in some cases are considered terminal illnesses after being given a pill made of sugar rather than the test drug, the healing is due to the placebo effect. Others would say that they were healed by faith, the patient believed that they would be healed due to the medication, and so they were healed, in spite of the fact that they received no medication. So, faith regardless of whether the faith comes from belief in the drug, belief in God or belief in witchcraft.”

http://www.witchcraft-magick.com/spells.html

A WICHES FAITH IS in the force of WITCHRAFT,,, Not faith or God.

There is no force called faith. Faith (trust) is only as good as the object of that faith.

 

An interesting study is to get a few bible dictionaries and do a word search and study on “god of forces” I have several books on demonology by Merrill F. Unger. He has a whole chapter devoted to the “god of forces” in one of them, so he might have a really good definition in his bible dictionary. I will look when I get more of my books out of storage.

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IN CLOSING 

I have about a dozen witchcraft websites bookmarked that are speaking about “creating your own future with the power of words” or “use your words to make yourself rich and powerful” BUT I will not make anymore quotes from them in this article.

INSTEAD I ask you to take a intellectual peek into the matter for yourself,, after you have prayed for spiritual protection over your heart.

Control, Power, and creating so called “realities” out of non physical realities (words and thoughts) is the very basis of all Occult philosophies. USE THE POWER LUKE, AM I YOUR FATHER?

The Word of Faith movement is nothing more than Gnosticism/Occultism invading the Christian Church tempting the Modern Christian to attempt to be in control of his own destiny and well being,,,, instead of FULLY RELYING ON GOD.

Have you bought into the lies, Do you still buy into the lies, OR WAS YOU HEALED BY THE POWER (reasoning) OF MY WORDS? Or maybe it was the power words in the title?

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