My interview with Dr. Russell Earl Kelly about Tithing and the Word of Faith Movement

Tithing expert Dr. Russell Earl Kelly from http://www.tithing-russkelly.com will be our special guest on ***THE WORD on the Word of Faith*** LIVE GROUP RADIO, March 12 @ 10pm central. Dr. Kelly is the author of the taboo shattering and controversy stirring book,,, “Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine”. Dr. Russ has been on a CBS special about tithing. In charisma magazine, and has even been in the wall street journal. Besides his groundbreaking book on tithes. He has one on the SDA. (as he was once seventh day Adventist) and one on And several teaching essays and videos. And his books have made a big stir and are reviewed and referred to everywhere on the net and other material and books about tithing. BEST OF ALL he is ALL about GRACE GIVING and NOT tithing. He is very much strong against the WoF being a highly educated Baptist preacher and theologian. Dr Kelly also has a TITHING study group on yahoo groups. It is likely that some of the group members there will call in and participate. They are all very knowledgeable about the hugely controversial and taboo subject of TITHING. Dr. Russ makes no bones about it. TITHING IS A TOOL taken out of it’s Old Testaments context to enslave people to pastors pocket books to help them build mega churches. Dr. Russ will join Damon and John as we talk about TITHING, the Word of Faith and the false prosperity gospel. There is way more to a study of Tithing than you could ever imagine. And don’t assume just because your church does not GUILT YOU INTO GIVING using God’s OT law,,, don’t assume that all churches are the same. AND THE WoF could not exist apart from their false teaching on TITHES and their illusive and contrived appearance of prosperity through giving. IF IT WHERE TRUE,, THE TV PREACHERS WOULD BE GIVING TO YOU!!!!

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Russell Earl Kelly refutes Kenneth Copeland on Tithing

Rebuttal of Kenneth Copeland on Tithing

BY Russell Earl Kelly, PHD

August 18, 2009

Understanding Tithing, Kenneth Copeland

http://www.kcm.org/real-help/article…anding-tithing

Russell Kelly: When it comes to discussing any doctrine with Word of Faith preachers such as Kenneth Copeland, it is impossible to dialog from the standpoint of biblical hermeneutics (principles of interpretation). Word of Faith ignores context and uses God’s Word as a magic Ouija board to pull meaning out of individual words against God’s teaching.

Copeland: “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 3:10-11).

Kelly: This is the most mis-interpreted text in all of the Bible. God does not and cannot bless New Covenant believers because of their supposed obedience to one of hundreds of Old Covenant commands which were never commanded to the Church after Calvary (1:1, 6; 2:1).
Copeland: This is God Himself speaking and He is saying, “Prove Me in this.” This is the only time in the Word where God instructs us to prove Him, and it is the one area where most people have withdrawn from proving God.

Kelly: First, Malachi was addressed only to Old Covenant national Israel and NOT to New Covenant Christians. Second, the statement by Copeland is false. The whole law was a test –not merely tithing. Obey ALL to be blessed; break ONE to be cursed. The only way to claim blessings from tithing would be to obey the whole Old Covenant law (Neh 10:29; Gal 3:110-13). And, even then, God is working through His New Covenant stipulations. See http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id154.html.
Copeland: Tithing was instituted under the Old Covenant as a way for God to communicate His blessing to His people.
Kelly: Notice that Copeland does not even give “out of context” texts to validate this statement. He merely declares it to be so! That is his specialty. Tithing was instituted in Numbers 18 to sustain Levites and priests for ministering in the sanctuary and for losing land and property inheritance. Copeland gets both: he received the tithe and he owns much property which is against the tithing law.

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 4

God in a Box, WoF Quotes, Part 4 by Yodas Prodigy

Here is PART ONE, PART, TWO, PART THREE

God is not sovereign in Word Faith Theology.

Below are some issues that Dr Marinelli should have grappled with including the following concepts espoused by the Word Faith Fathers:

E.W. Kenyon

“It seems that God is limited by our prayer life, that He can do nothing for humanity unless someone asks Him to do it. Why this is, I do not know.” (“The Two Kinds of Faith,” p. 42).

Kenneth Hagin

a. “Originally, God made the earth and the fullness thereof, giving Adam dominion over all the works of His hands. In other words, Adam was the god of this world. (Kenneth Hagin, “The Believer’s Authority, 1987, p. 19)

b. Therefore, Adam had dominion upon this earth and in this world. He was originally, in a sense, god of this world. But Satan came and lied to Adam. Adam committed high treason and sold out to Satan. Then Satan became the god of this world. (Hagin, “The Art of Intercession,” 1980, p.3; reissued as “The Art of Prayer” both 1992 and 2000 editions contain the same teaching.

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 3

God in a Box, A Review Part 3 by Yodas Prodigy

HERE ARE PART ONE AND PART TWO

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

Satan needed God’s permission to attack Job. Despite the crowing of Word Faith supporters, Satan admitted that Job had a hedge of protection around him (Job 1:9). It is obvious that God removed that hedge of protection in order for Satan to attack.

Remember also, God told Satan everything of Job’s is yours. Do not touch him. So the first attack was against everything that Job had except his wife. Why, because Satan did not have permission to do anything else. The second time, Satan had permission to attack Job’s flesh. But he could not kill him. Each time, God was asked by Satan for permission.

Job is far more than Dr. Marinelli can understand using his Word Faith perspective. He was a man who had control of his thoughts, Job 31:1. His sacrifices for his children are considered acts of fear. Yet, Abraham and Noah made the same types of sacrifices. See Genesis 8:20; 15:9-10. Also note that each time Job was attacked, he did not sin (Job 1:22 and 2:10) Even when God had chastised Job for his self-righteousness, God did not require a sacrifice for Job, only his friends (Job 42:7). I would like to also point out, each time Dr. Marinelli quoted Job when one of his friends were speaking, they were considered to be errant by God.

HERESY UNMASKED: Analysis of the Word of Faith Movement Doctrines

As the return of the Lord Jesus Christ is nearing and the age is also closing in on the schemes of satan – he is working fast around the human clock to spread his deceptions and heresies.

While it is evidently quite difficult for Satan to lure believers into heinous sinful activities – he’s found other means of getting to them right from their pulpits. He is using the means of heresies and even heretic preachers to divert Christians from their primary mission – God.

The Word of Faith Movement has been at the very front of promoting doctrines or teachings that are nowhere taught in Scripture. These men and women distort many passages of the Bible to propagate their own ideas rather than the clearly revealed Word of God.

Click on the picture to download your free 60-page PDF Ebook!

TESTIMONY: The Word of Faith in Romnad, India

http://forums.carm.org/v/showpost.php?p=5714656&postcount=46

WoF activities in my home town: (Romnad, India)

Acts 4:20 – We cannot stop telling about everything we have seen and heard.

One young man near my native place went to a WoF Bible College in my state capital (known as Apostolic Faith Tabernacle). He came back and started a Church in my native place. He also lived in the same street and from our house we could see his entire house.

He started aggressively promoting the WoF teachings. If someone says to him that they were sick he would immediately yell back – oh no! don’t say that! You will get what you say. He targeted one Doctor in the town who is a distant relative of mine. He gave that Doctor’s family “a package deal” which he presented as the “full” Gospel. They all confessed Jesus as their Lord according to Romans 10:9 and got “saved” (without any repentance). Then the WoF Pastor introduced them the Prosperity message as part of the “full” Gospel and promised 100 fold return. Then that Doctor gave him a piece of land to him. The Doctor in spite of getting “saved” according to Romans 10:9 went from smoking to drugs. His marriage broke. This is what the WoF pastors do in India. They target either nominal Christians or members of other Christian denominations who are Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers, Government officials, college professors and wealthy business people. In other words they find out potential donors who can support their “ministry” and offer them the package deal.

They don’t go rural side or to poor people because they don’t have enough money and resources. Their prosperity magic does not work with poor people. After deceiving rich people they cling to them for everything. Rich people are usually appointed as elders in the Church and given important responsibilities. They don’t even bother if their rich supporters are genuinely repented and had a life changing experience! As long as they donate money these WoF preachers are happy with them. Doesn’t it remind about wolves. Wolves use the sheep as a food source (or resource). If a death or some important even happens in a poor believer’s home these WoF pastors won’t visit them but delegate their junior pastors or associates to visit them. If a death or any other important event happens in a rich person’s house the WoF preachers give them top priority. Even during normal days they visit the rich people often, let their wives to befriend their wives and let their children play with their children. The poor people are given only a few minutes of the Pastor’s time!!! This is how the WoF movement “plants” churches in India. Someone might say oh, these kind of incidents are isolated and not widespread and it is too much of a generalization to give these examples etc etc. But the truth it is wide spread and it had become norm in India’s WoF circles. These are not isolated incidents. That is the reason most of the Indian WoF Churches exist only in big cities where they can find rich people to support their ministries which are in many situations family enterprises or personal kingdoms.

My interview with Dr. Russell Kelly on Tithing and the Word of faith.

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Tithing expert Dr. Russell Earl Kelly from http://www.tithing-russkelly.com

Dr. Kelly is the author of the taboo shattering and controversy stirring book,,,

“Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine”.

Dr. Russ has been on a CBS special about tithing. In charisma magazine, and has even been in the wall street journal. Besides his groundbreaking book on tithes. He has one on the SDA (as he was once seventh day Adventist). And several teaching essays and videos. And his books have made a big stir and are reviewed and referred to everywhere on the net and other material and books about tithing.

BEST OF ALL he is ALL about GRACE GIVING and NOT tithing. He is very much strong against the WoF being a highly educated Baptist preacher and theologian.Dr Kelly also has a TITHING study group on yahoo groups. It is likely that some of the group members there will call in and participate. They are all very knowledgeable about the hugely controversial and taboo subject of TITHING. Dr. Russ makes no bones about it. TITHING IS A TOOL taken out of it’s Old Testaments context to enslave people to pastors pocket books to help them build mega churches.

Dr. Russ will join Damon and John as we talk about TITHING, the Word of Faith and the false prosperity gospel. There is way more to a study of Tithing than you could ever imagine. And don’t assume just because your church does not GUILT YOU INTO GIVING using God’s OT law,,, don’t assume that all churches are the same. AND THE WoF could not exist apart from their false teaching on TITHES and their illusive and contrived appearance of prosperity through giving. IF IT WHERE TRUE,, THE TV PREACHERS WOULD BE GIVING TO YOU!!!!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-word-on-the-word/2009/03/13/twotwof-group-radio-episode-2-tithing-the-word-of-faith-and-prosperity-gospel-dr-russel-kelly

We will feature many of Dr. Russ’s work on our wordpress.com GROUPBLOG at http://THEWORDontheWordofFaithINFOblog.com

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Dr. Russell Earl Kelly refutes Word of Faith Apologist Tom Brown on tithing.

Rebuttal of Tom Brown Ministries on Tithing

http://www.tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm

Brown: Tithing began before the law was introduced.

Kelly: The fact that tithing existed before the law proves nothing. Idolatry, child sacrifice and temple prostitution also existed before the law in all lands of Abraham’s day, including Canaan. The fact that something is very old and very common does not make it an eternal moral principle.

Brown: The Law simply regulated the tithe.

Kelly: No. The tithe of Abraham and Jacob had its definition from pagan Babylon and was not the same thing as a holy tithe of ONLY FOOD from a holy land miraculously increased by Yahweh and returned to Yahweh. The two definitions are very different.

Brown: Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law,

Kelly: Why? The Bible does not say that Abraham did it voluntarily. There is just as much biblical evidence from Genesis 14:21 that he gave in obedience to common Canaanite tradition to his local priest-king, or as a passage tax.

Dr. Russell Earl Kelly refutes Dr. Chad Marinelli on Tithing

Dr. Marinelli is the owner of wordoffaithanswers.com

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Marinelli: I have never seen a hard and fast rule of 10% explicitly stated in the New Testament as a commandment.

Kelly: That is because none exists. If it did, and, if tithing were legitimate, then tithe-recipients would not be allowed to own property and would have to kill anybody who dared to worship God directly per Numbers 18:21-29.

Marinelli: This matter of tithing is similar to the discussion of the Sabbath (See my Q&A about the Sabbath). The Sabbath was a type of our rest of faith (Hebrews 4), and has been since replaced with the first day of the week for worship (Acts 20:7).

Kelly: The Sabbath of Hebrews 4:3 is a type of the Creation Sabbath which lasted until Adam sinned. The 7th day Sabbath was only given to national Israel per Ex 31:13-17. Sunday does not replace the Sabbath commandment as part of the Law. According to Hebrews 8:13 the entire Old Covenant Law vanished at Calvary.

Marinelli: The New Testament shouts aloud of our freedom in Christ. We aren’t bound by ritualistic observances.

Kelly: Tithing was the most important ritualistic statute-ordinance-ceremonial law because it enabled the priesthood to exist. It was not a moral law.