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The Word of Faith Movement is powerful and influential, with numerous affiliated churches worldwide. Compelling, charismatic leaders preach their peculiar doctrines to enthusiastic and accepting global audiences who view Word Faith as just another denomination within Christianity, but are they really?

Best known for their “prosperity gospel”, they promise riches in this life. W ask and answer the question, “Is Word Faith prosperity really Biblical prosperity?” The answer might surprise you. We let the Bible speak.

However the Word Faith Movement is in far deeper water doctrinally. Certain lines cannot be crossed without becoming outright heresy. These lines include the Person of Jesus Christ. We must not misrepresent our Lord and Savior, or we could be found guilty of presenting “another Jesus” and “another gospel” as the Apostle Paul warned the church.

Has the Word Faith Movement crossed the line? We believe so and you can decide for yourself as this DVD takes a Biblical look at some of their more aberrant teachings. Be prepared to be shocked!

Lorri MacGregor brings over thirty years of Discernment Ministry experience to this expose, having authored two books, ten DVDs, numerious articles and booklets examining various groups.

Lorri was a Jehovah’s Witness for 15 years and together with her husband Keith MacGregor and ministry partners Richard and Cheryl Schatz, serves with MM Outreach a US based non profit organization dedicated to the preaching of the gospel message to lost and hurting people.

Word Faith Is it the Word or the Faith of the Bible? © 2009 MM Outreach Inc

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For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
(2Co 8:9)

What say ye? ***I really think regarding 2 Corinthians 8:9 that Albert Barnes (Barnes notes) said it best in the following: Btw, I will give what he said in two parts.

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In this video I refute all arguments in support of tithing (mandatory giving of 10% of monetary income), to include the prosperity preachers’ latest scam that Jesus is the High Priest receiving our tithes just as Melchizadek/Melchizedek received tithes from Abram.

See 2:35-3:45
In this sermon titled “Dealing With False Teachers”, Dr. Stanley warns us about the dangers of false teachers, how they’re becoming more and more prevalent every day and how the Bible warns that this very thing would happen in the last days.

In Part 3, Dr. Stanley discusses some of the most common false teachings that are being taught today. He also tells how to best equip ourselves to recognize such false teachings.

For more information on this sermon, please visit:

http://www.intouch.org

A young lady is burned by the prosperity gospel and the teaching of Pastor Mason Betha which is an associate of Creflo Dollar.

SOURCE

Have you ever known someone that is more concerned with the next move of God or wave of the Spirit rather than reading , understanding, and applying the principles of God into their daily living. I do, there are numerous charismatic signs and wonders chasers being deceived in the Body  of Christ and in the Church today. I can compare it to a surfer trying to catch the ultimate wave, going from beach to beach in search of the ultimate wave but never finding it. The search for the next wave in Charismatic circles  has led believers down a path away from  Jesus instead of towards Him.

This testimony is from Victor who is originally from India and now lives in the United States.  Victor also runs http://blabitandgrabit.wordpress.com & http://blabitandgrabit.blogspot.com

I am from the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu. The name of my home town is Ramnad. Only for less than 2 years I was under the influence of WoF . When it was first introduced in India many Christians including me were attracted to it. I thought WoF was an “advanced level” of revelation beyond what the traditional pentecostal/charismatic churches had. I concluded that WoF is the “full” gospel and other Christian denominations were lacking something. Then God started opening my eyes. God taught me that He is a Sovereign God and He always works in my life in mysterious ways and always does things more than what I can imagine or think.In the  eighties a Doctor called Justin from India got attracted to the WoF teachings. First he started to air his program from a Radio station which broadcasts Christian programs in some Indian languages from the Seychelles island. Initially he preached against evolution, apologetics and Bible and Archeology.  He was stealth in his approach in introducing the WoF message in India. Therefore many Christians including myself trusted him. He later took my home state by storm (converting the Christians there to WoF) using his seductive powers and charismatic personality.   He said that he would never get sick and he would leave his body at his own will.  By postive confessions about divine healing and health he thought he could live in this earth as long as he can.    He even ridiculed those who were still sick. He was unapproachable in spite of proclaiming a postive message.  Even one of his fellow minister used to tell people who wanted to meet him after the meetings that they need to go and see him with boldness.  He used ot say “You have to believe in your heart and not in your brain.  He was spearheading the WoF movement in my home state.   Many innocent Christians were deceived by his false teachings.  Dr. Justin’s influence was growing rapidly. He moved to state capital and was able to gather 2000 people in less than a year. Shortly after that he got a brain disease and suddenly passed away. He died with 800,000 Indian Rupees in debt and his Church split into 8. This incident puzzled many WoF followers in India. They started wondering why a man who boasted about living in divine health, death at his will and financial prosperity himself died of a disease and with a huge amount of debt (in Indian currency). But in spite of God expressing His disapproval by removing that man from the earth, his followers and relatives never repented. They are still advancing his legacy which was heresy!  A number of individuals were spiritually destroyed by this ferocious wolf.  He also asked Christians not to pray for a need more than once because “a prayer of faith must be prayed only once” and if you pray for the 2nd time it would invalidate the first prayer.

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Rebuttal of Kenneth Copeland on Tithing

BY Russell Earl Kelly, PHD

August 18, 2009

Understanding Tithing, Kenneth Copeland

http://www.kcm.org/real-help/article…anding-tithing

Russell Kelly: When it comes to discussing any doctrine with Word of Faith preachers such as Kenneth Copeland, it is impossible to dialog from the standpoint of biblical hermeneutics (principles of interpretation). Word of Faith ignores context and uses God’s Word as a magic Ouija board to pull meaning out of individual words against God’s teaching.

Copeland: “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 3:10-11).

Kelly: This is the most mis-interpreted text in all of the Bible. God does not and cannot bless New Covenant believers because of their supposed obedience to one of hundreds of Old Covenant commands which were never commanded to the Church after Calvary (1:1, 6; 2:1).
Copeland: This is God Himself speaking and He is saying, “Prove Me in this.” This is the only time in the Word where God instructs us to prove Him, and it is the one area where most people have withdrawn from proving God.

Kelly: First, Malachi was addressed only to Old Covenant national Israel and NOT to New Covenant Christians. Second, the statement by Copeland is false. The whole law was a test –not merely tithing. Obey ALL to be blessed; break ONE to be cursed. The only way to claim blessings from tithing would be to obey the whole Old Covenant law (Neh 10:29; Gal 3:110-13). And, even then, God is working through His New Covenant stipulations. See http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id154.html.
Copeland: Tithing was instituted under the Old Covenant as a way for God to communicate His blessing to His people.
Kelly: Notice that Copeland does not even give “out of context” texts to validate this statement. He merely declares it to be so! That is his specialty. Tithing was instituted in Numbers 18 to sustain Levites and priests for ministering in the sanctuary and for losing land and property inheritance. Copeland gets both: he received the tithe and he owns much property which is against the tithing law.
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Oral Roberts died this week and the obituaries have been abuzz with analyses of his life and legacy. The USA Today headline summed up his contributions this way: “Oral Roberts brought health-and-wealth Gospel mainstream.” The Los Angeles Times gave a similar snapshot of the man: “Oral Roberts dies at 91; televangelist was pioneering preacher of the ‘prosperity gospel'”

But Christianity Today‘s lead blogger, Ted Olsen, disagreed. He responded with a post titled “Why the .” The long subtitle at the head of Olsen’s post explained: “The ‘faith-healer’ (who hated the term) may have done much to mainstream Pentecostalism, but he was no architect of the Prosperity Gospel.”

Olsen’s argument, essentially, is that the real founder and mastermind of prosperity doctrine was not Oral Roberts but Kenneth Hagin, “who is far more widely recognized as the man who joined Pentecostalism with the Faith Movement (also called ‘Word-Faith,’ or derogatively, the Prosperity Gospel or ‘Health and Wealth’ gospel).”

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God in a Box, WoF Quotes, Part 4 by Yodas Prodigy

Here is PART ONE, PART, TWO, PART THREE

God is not sovereign in Word Faith Theology.

Below are some issues that Dr Marinelli should have grappled with including the following concepts espoused by the Word Faith Fathers:

E.W. Kenyon

It seems that God is limited by our prayer life, that He can do nothing for humanity unless someone asks Him to do it. Why this is, I do not know.” (“The Two Kinds of Faith,” p. 42).

Kenneth Hagin

a. “Originally, God made the earth and the fullness thereof, giving Adam dominion over all the works of His hands. In other words, Adam was the god of this world. (Kenneth Hagin, “The Believer’s Authority, 1987, p. 19)

b. Therefore, Adam had dominion upon this earth and in this world. He was originally, in a sense, god of this world. But Satan came and lied to Adam. Adam committed high treason and sold out to Satan. Then Satan became the god of this world. (Hagin, “The Art of Intercession,” 1980, p.3; reissued as “The Art of Prayer” both 1992 and 2000 editions contain the same teaching.

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God in a Box, A Review Part 3 by Yodas Prodigy

HERE ARE PART ONE AND PART TWO

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

Satan needed God’s permission to attack Job. Despite the crowing of Word Faith supporters, Satan admitted that Job had a hedge of protection around him (Job 1:9). It is obvious that God removed that hedge of protection in order for Satan to attack.

Remember also, God told Satan everything of Job’s is yours. Do not touch him. So the first attack was against everything that Job had except his wife. Why, because Satan did not have permission to do anything else. The second time, Satan had permission to attack Job’s flesh. But he could not kill him. Each time, God was asked by Satan for permission.

Job is far more than Dr. Marinelli can understand using his Word Faith perspective. He was a man who had control of his thoughts, Job 31:1. His sacrifices for his children are considered acts of fear. Yet, Abraham and Noah made the same types of sacrifices. See Genesis 8:20; 15:9-10. Also note that each time Job was attacked, he did not sin (Job 1:22 and 2:10) Even when God had chastised Job for his self-righteousness, God did not require a sacrifice for Job, only his friends (Job 42:7). I would like to also point out, each time Dr. Marinelli quoted Job when one of his friends were speaking, they were considered to be errant by God.

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heresyunmasked

As the return of the Lord Jesus Christ is nearing and the age is also closing in on the schemes of satan – he is working fast around the human clock to spread his deceptions and heresies.

While it is evidently quite difficult for Satan to lure believers into heinous sinful activities – he’s found other means of getting to them right from their pulpits. He is using the means of heresies and even heretic preachers to divert Christians from their primary mission – God.

The Word of Faith Movement has been at the very front of promoting doctrines or teachings that are nowhere taught in Scripture. These men and women distort many passages of the Bible to propagate their own ideas rather than the clearly revealed Word of God.

Click on the picture to download your free 60-page PDF Ebook!

Here is PART ONE

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

I quote from the Westminster Confession Faith (Dr. Marinelli also used the W.C.F. as a source):

God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass (Rom_9:15, Rom_9:18; Rom_11:33; Eph_1:11; Heb_6:17): yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin (Jam_1:13, Jam_1:17; 1Jo_1:5), nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (Pro_16:33; Mat_17:12; Joh_19:11; Act_2:23; Act_4:27, Act_4:28). WCF 3:1

Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions (Mat_11:21, Mat_11:23; Act_15:18; 1Sa_23:11, 1Sa_23:12), yet hath He not decreed any thing because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions (Rom_9:11, Rom_9:13, Rom_9:16, Rom_9:18). WCF 3:2
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God in a Box, A Review Part 1 by Yodas Prodigy

Here is PART TWO

Opening Statement

My review is in regards to the work authored by Chad Marinelli, “God in a Box?” Dr. Marinelli offers an apologetic for the Word Faith Movement’s view on God’s sovereignty and how man fits in to that sovereignty.

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

You will note that I did not cover the entire work of Chad Marinelli. It would have taken an equal volume of effort to respond to all of his errors.

The Review

“The Cloudy Waters” is the title of chapter one. I will demonstrate that it is Dr. Marinelli who is muddying the waters and not those who consider themselves orthodox believers.

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http://forums.carm.org/v/showpost.php?p=5714656&postcount=46

WoF activities in my home town: (Romnad, India)

Acts 4:20 – We cannot stop telling about everything we have seen and heard.

One young man near my native place went to a WoF Bible College in my state capital (known as Apostolic Faith Tabernacle). He came back and started a Church in my native place. He also lived in the same street and from our house we could see his entire house.

He started aggressively promoting the WoF teachings. If someone says to him that they were sick he would immediately yell back – oh no! don’t say that! You will get what you say. He targeted one Doctor in the town who is a distant relative of mine. He gave that Doctor’s family “a package deal” which he presented as the “full” Gospel. They all confessed Jesus as their Lord according to Romans 10:9 and got “saved” (without any repentance). Then the WoF Pastor introduced them the Prosperity message as part of the “full” Gospel and promised 100 fold return. Then that Doctor gave him a piece of land to him. The Doctor in spite of getting “saved” according to Romans 10:9 went from smoking to drugs. His marriage broke. This is what the WoF pastors do in India. They target either nominal Christians or members of other Christian denominations who are Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers, Government officials, college professors and wealthy business people. In other words they find out potential donors who can support their “ministry” and offer them the package deal.

They don’t go rural side or to poor people because they don’t have enough money and resources. Their prosperity magic does not work with poor people. After deceiving rich people they cling to them for everything. Rich people are usually appointed as elders in the Church and given important responsibilities. They don’t even bother if their rich supporters are genuinely repented and had a life changing experience! As long as they donate money these WoF preachers are happy with them. Doesn’t it remind about wolves. Wolves use the sheep as a food source (or resource). If a death or some important even happens in a poor believer’s home these WoF pastors won’t visit them but delegate their junior pastors or associates to visit them. If a death or any other important event happens in a rich person’s house the WoF preachers give them top priority. Even during normal days they visit the rich people often, let their wives to befriend their wives and let their children play with their children. The poor people are given only a few minutes of the Pastor’s time!!! This is how the WoF movement “plants” churches in India. Someone might say oh, these kind of incidents are isolated and not widespread and it is too much of a generalization to give these examples etc etc. But the truth it is wide spread and it had become norm in India’s WoF circles. These are not isolated incidents. That is the reason most of the Indian WoF Churches exist only in big cities where they can find rich people to support their ministries which are in many situations family enterprises or personal kingdoms.

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THIS SHOW IS AVAILABLE FOR LISTENING OR DOWNLOAD AS A PODCAST OR MP3 ON THE BloagTalkRadio PAGE

CLICK THE BOUNCING RADO BELOW

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kellyTithing expert Dr. Russell Earl Kelly from http://www.tithing-russkelly.com

Dr. Kelly is the author of the taboo shattering and controversy stirring book,,,

“Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine”.

Dr. Russ has been on a CBS special about tithing. In charisma magazine, and has even been in the wall street journal. Besides his groundbreaking book on tithes. He has one on the SDA (as he was once seventh day Adventist). And several teaching essays and videos. And his books have made a big stir and are reviewed and referred to everywhere on the net and other material and books about tithing.

BEST OF ALL he is ALL about GRACE GIVING and NOT tithing. He is very much strong against the WoF being a highly educated Baptist preacher and theologian.Dr Kelly also has a TITHING study group on yahoo groups. It is likely that some of the group members there will call in and participate. They are all very knowledgeable about the hugely controversial and taboo subject of TITHING. Dr. Russ makes no bones about it. TITHING IS A TOOL taken out of it’s Old Testaments context to enslave people to pastors pocket books to help them build mega churches.

Dr. Russ will join Damon and John as we talk about TITHING, the Word of Faith and the false prosperity gospel. There is way more to a study of Tithing than you could ever imagine. And don’t assume just because your church does not GUILT YOU INTO GIVING using God’s OT law,,, don’t assume that all churches are the same. AND THE WoF could not exist apart from their false teaching on TITHES and their illusive and contrived appearance of prosperity through giving. IF IT WHERE TRUE,, THE TV PREACHERS WOULD BE GIVING TO YOU!!!!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-word-on-the-word/2009/03/13/twotwof-group-radio-episode-2-tithing-the-word-of-faith-and-prosperity-gospel-dr-russel-kelly

We will feature many of Dr. Russ’s work on our wordpress.com GROUPBLOG at http://THEWORDontheWordofFaithINFOblog.com

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CHECK OUT  THE 24/7 LINE UP OF 60+ HRs OF THE VERY BEST **Word of Faith** EXPOSURE VIDEO AT
THE WORD on the Word of Faith TV

Rebuttal of Tom Brown Ministries on Tithing

http://www.tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm

Brown: Tithing began before the law was introduced.

Kelly: The fact that tithing existed before the law proves nothing. Idolatry, child sacrifice and temple prostitution also existed before the law in all lands of Abraham’s day, including Canaan. The fact that something is very old and very common does not make it an eternal moral principle.

Brown: The Law simply regulated the tithe.

Kelly: No. The tithe of Abraham and Jacob had its definition from pagan Babylon and was not the same thing as a holy tithe of ONLY FOOD from a holy land miraculously increased by Yahweh and returned to Yahweh. The two definitions are very different.

Brown: Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law,

Kelly: Why? The Bible does not say that Abraham did it voluntarily. There is just as much biblical evidence from Genesis 14:21 that he gave in obedience to common Canaanite tradition to his local priest-king, or as a passage tax.

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Dr. Marinelli is the owner of wordoffaithanswers.com

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Marinelli: I have never seen a hard and fast rule of 10% explicitly stated in the New Testament as a commandment.

Kelly: That is because none exists. If it did, and, if tithing were legitimate, then tithe-recipients would not be allowed to own property and would have to kill anybody who dared to worship God directly per Numbers 18:21-29.

Marinelli: This matter of tithing is similar to the discussion of the Sabbath (See my Q&A about the Sabbath). The Sabbath was a type of our rest of faith (Hebrews 4), and has been since replaced with the first day of the week for worship (Acts 20:7).

Kelly: The Sabbath of Hebrews 4:3 is a type of the Creation Sabbath which lasted until Adam sinned. The 7th day Sabbath was only given to national Israel per Ex 31:13-17. Sunday does not replace the Sabbath commandment as part of the Law. According to Hebrews 8:13 the entire Old Covenant Law vanished at Calvary.

Marinelli: The New Testament shouts aloud of our freedom in Christ. We aren’t bound by ritualistic observances.

Kelly: Tithing was the most important ritualistic statute-ordinance-ceremonial law because it enabled the priesthood to exist. It was not a moral law.

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This is 2 of 33 Word of Faith responses from “Correcting the Cults – Expert responses to their scripture twisting” By Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes. Bookmark the site and come back for this series. PART 1 IS HERE

1 Peter 1:18-19 — Is our redemption based on Christ suffering in hell, as some word of faith teachers argue, and not on His shedding of blood on the cross.

1Pe 1:18-19  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Misinterpretation:
Word-Faith teaches say that Christ shed blood on the cross did not atone for our sins. Kenneth Copeland, for example, says “Jesus went into hell to free mankind from the penalty of Adams high treason….When his blood poured out, it did not atone…. Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God.” (personal letter from Kenneth Copeland; cited in McConnell, 1988, 120).

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httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8laOGcHby-w

Night 5 of the TBN Revival Praise-a-thon (April 8-13). Jamal-Harrison Bryant preys on the most desperate of people to send in money OUT OF THEIR LACK. He acknowledges Steve Munsey and played on Munsey’s game of 7, a video you can see at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuydWz…
Then Bryant closes with the sinner’s prayer.

Given his prosperity gospel method of preaching and his gaudy methods as can be seen at his own web site at empowermenttemple.org . This puts Jamal-Harrison Bryant squarely in the position of having a church of the Laodiceans. Meaning those who continue to follow him after accepting Jesus would end up having to repent of the sins Bryant puts on them, as described in Revelation 3:14-22.

As for Bryant himself, his methods of extracting money are corrupt. He is devouring the poor and leaving them with the desire to give for the sake of earthly gain. He is using the Word of God for dishonest gain. His mouth should be shut, please read Titus 1:5-11 .

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLpzb6CxG_g

Unholy Trinity
Friday, Dec 11, 2009

(By John MacArthur)

I don’t watch much television, and when I do I generally avoid the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). For many years TBN has been dominated by faith-healers, full-time fund-raisers, and self-proclaimed prophets spewing heresy. I wrote about the false gospel they proclaim and the phony miracles they pretend to do almost two decades ago in Charismatic Chaos (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992. See especially chapter 12). I had my fill of charismatic televangelism while researching that book, and I can hardly bear to watch it any more.

Recently, however, while recovering from knee-replacement surgery, I decided to sample some of the current fare on TBN. From a therapeutic point of view it seemed a good choice: something more excruciating than the pain in my leg might distract me from the physical suffering of post-surgical trauma. And I suppose on that basis the strategy was effective.

But it left me outraged and frustrated—and eager to challenge the misperceptions in the minds of millions of unbelievers who see these false teachers masquerading as ministers of Christ on TBN.

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A Debate with Jose Silva Leader of Silva Mind Control ( Dr. George DeSau Psychologist and Graduate of Silva Mind Control) DEBATE John Weldon and Dave Hunt on the John Ankerberg Show.

Silva Mind Control History

Silva began developing the method; formerly known as Silva Mind Control, in the 1940s before launching it commercially in the 1960s.[1][2]. It developed out of Silva’s conviction that the thoughts and actions of 90% of the world’s population were governed by the the left hemisphere of their brain; limiting them using only logical, intellectual, objective means of problem resolution. Silva believed that by training people to think with both the right brain hemisphere as well as their left they could access information stored at a subconscious level. [1][2] According to Skeptical author Robert Carroll, the Silva method appears to be based on the work of Roger Wolcott Sperry, but with Silva’s own twists in it that make it an inaccurate model. [1]

The Rest of the Article on Link Below http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silva_Mi…

Christian or New Age Mind Control Cult ? TAP BELOW FOR ARTICLE http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/C…

Freedom Beacon Ministries founder speaks out on the theological definition of “cult”. Based on the two major signifiers found in 2 Corinthians 11:3, 4.

 The bringers of false and strange fire

 

GOD’S GENERALS: The Legacy (includes Todd Bentley, Jim Goll, Benny Hinn, Roberts Liardon, and more)

 

Cessationism is it True?

by coramdeo on Apr.14, 2009, under Religion

benny_hinn1

First I want to say that I do not believe that Cessationism or Continuationism are “essential doctrines”. Meaning I do not think that your salvation relys on what you believe in regard to them. However, like any theology what you believe will have an affect on your life, and closer you are to the truth the better your life will be. So, like in everything we must desire to adhere to the truth, to discover it, and follow it. When it comes to Cessationism I am no expert, but I do wish to bring here what I have learned. I am in no way so stuck on it that I cannot be convinced of another view.

 

I have agreed with Eric Kemp who authors the Blog Apologia at intelligentscience.org to participate in a informal debate on the topic of Cessationism vs Continuationism. I will be arguing for Cessationism and he Continuationism. I will write the first post and he will respond. We welcome your input and questions at any point along the way. This is our way of challenging ourselves while also benefiting you with both sides of the debate.

For your reference I will be using information found in these Sources:

Ligonier: 1. Miracles and 2. God Speaking

Modern Reformation: 3. Spiritual Gifts

Realgospel.org: 4. Cessationism

I will reference material with the preceding number for the source i.e (3).

I do believe, like many, that Cessationism gets a bad rap and that there are many false views, or arguments against it. First I will give a quick summery of Cessationism, then give some bad arguments against it, and lastly give some good arguments for it. I do not plan on going too in depth, but to be concise and if needed go more in depth in my responses.

As a preface I would like to point out that even if all of scripture can be shown to agree with Cessationism to a reasonable degree, that many people will still not believe it, because to be Cessationist means that you got there because you believe other things about the Bible, revelation, early church, apostles, spiritual gifts, Holy Spirit ect, than Continuationists, and if you are Continuationist, in order to become Cessationist you must change your beliefs on all these things and more, so it is no small task. It of course works the other way too, and Cessationists must change many of their beliefs to become Continuationists. This is because each side interprets the Bible differently in many of these non essentials, so you must change how you interpret and view the entire scriptures. Also this is why so many other doctrines are hard for people to change to, because it requires more than just changing your view on one doctrine. So, please just be aware that these discussions may challenge you and frustrate you, but will not necessarily be enough to convince you, because your views are supported by more than one doctrine. I became a Cessationist because of being convinced of other doctrines, of which Cessationism fits in with, and because it fits into how I understand the Bible and its proper interpretation.

Like in the other articles I linked, I too believe that many people do not understand the Cessationist view or have wrong ideas. Its not like we don’t believe in Miracles (1), we believe God is working Supernaturally, just that He no longer uses some of the Spiritual gifts He gave to the early church, because their use is no longer needed. Not all the gifts are gone, just some, just the ones that God gave to build the foundation of His early church and Scripture, and now since they are both done, built, there is no more need for these gifts (3)(4).

The basic belief is that Scripture is complete now, God gave the spiritual gifts of prophecy, tongues, and healings to validate the Apostles teaching while He built the early Church and Scripture. Since they are now built, there is no need for them now. Now God wants us to get direction from His revealed revelation (the Bible) not secret sayings or verbal communication from Him (2). He no longer needs prophecy, healings, or tongues to prove His word is true, we now have Scripture and the Apostles who were shown to be true through their miracles and gifts. Now God can if He wants, give these gifts again, we are not saying that, but that God doesn’t normally or regularly give them like He did in the early Church.

This is one of the main arguments for Cessationism, namely that our understanding of the Gifts and their intended use, differs from Continuationists. Cessationists now rely on scripture alone to hear from God, to prove His Gospel, and to be the catalyst that saves His people. We believe that 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 should be interpreted as signifying that the gifts will cease once the church is built (4). We also believe that Ephesians 4:11-13 seems to say that the Apostles, and Prophets will only be given until the fullness of the church has come, then they will cease (3). We argue that since you do not see Apostles now days, that you wont see Prophets, although you will see teachers, and evangelists. There are a few reasons for this. Apostles have ceased with the 12, Rev 21:14 seems to show that there will only be 12. Also Ephesians 4:11 says that the church will be build on Apostles and Prophets, and thus it can be inferred that when the church is built, these offices will cease. Timothy who is not an apostle is called a pastor / teacher by Paul and is encouraged to continue on even when Paul is gone. I think the N.T is quite evident that Pastors and Teacher are to continue on, but we do not have much evidence that Apostles or Prophets should continue on, and in light of other passages I think it is best to conclude that Apostles and Prophet offices have ceased.

So we believe that God had a time for the Apostles and Prophets, and the gifts of tongues, healings, and prophecy, namely to build His Church and Scripture, but now that they are both built, we have no need for any of them. We are to now rely upon Scripture alone for our revelation from God, we are to pursue love, faith, and joy and not prophecy, tongues, or healing. We are not to rely on experiences, but the evidence found in Scripture as our bases for truth and revelation. God still does work miraculously especially in His work to save people, and might at times even work miracles as responses to prayer, or just to do the work He wishes to do. However, we do not believe that He has gifted specific people with these gifts to use them all the time. Nor do we believe one miracle to evidence that the gifts are back, but that God is working still in this earth. We have a hard time believing the gifts are still here in the same power they were with the Apostles because we don’t see people being raised from the dead (like Peter did) or lame people being healed (like Peter did), or the blind given sight. We hear about such things, but we see no quantifiable evidence that they are real, or that they are consistent, meaning not a once in a while supernatural occurrence. If these gifts were still working today, considering the number of true Christians now days, one would think he would see tons of miracles happening everywhere, all the time, since we do not, it’s safe to say the gifts have ceased.

Bad Arguments against Cessationism:

1. “I have see people prophecy, heal, or speak in Tongues”.

First experiences should never trump scripture, and you should never interpret scripture from your experiences. Why? Well first our hearts are deceptively wicked, and who can really trust our feelings (4). Second we are called to test the spirits 1 John 4:1, and if we need to test them with Scripture, why is there a need to quote something other than scripture (4)? We are meant to use scripture, to test what other people are speaking, what “spirit” are they speaking / teaching in, does it align with scripture? Experiences can support scripture, but they should never contradict, and if they do, either your interpretation or your experience is wrong.

Second other religions speak in “tongues” or “prophecy” or do “healings”, so it seems they can be contrived, and not the real thing. Also people can be insane and hear voices or contrive such things, how are you sure you are sane or that person is?

Third I have found no proof for any true “healing” miracle to be done, at least the kind like done by apostles. This is more for other people to prove, but in all my study I have not seen a person who was blind, not bad sight, but blind, proven by doctors and others, who was given 20/20 vision instantly and proven by others / doctors. Or a person who had a shrived hand or leg, who was restored instantly in front of witnesses proven by doctors. Or a person raised from the dead. Not that miracles do not happen medically, or that things do not happen to people that cannot be explained, but as far as I can tell this kind of thing happens to non Christians and Christians alike. What I am saying is I have not seen or heard proven that any so called Miracle healer being able to actually perform true healing miracles like my examples before, and more often than not these healers have been proven to be charlatans. If this gift is not performed in power, given to specific people who have done it multiple times in big ways, then I do not think there is evidence for it. If it is sparse, given to random people for a specific time, well that doesn’t prove that the gift of healing has continued, but that God works Supernaturally in this world and answers prayers. A good article on this is Faith Healing and the Sovereignty of God.

2. “No where in the Bible is it specifically said that only Apostles and Prophets will cease along with Tongues and Healings”.

No where in the Bible is the word Trinity also, but we infer from careful study of Scripture that the concept is taught clearly. So it is with Cessationism, we believe that although it is not specifically taught, it is taught by inference.

3. “You guys don’t see miracles because you do not have enough faith.”

Where in the N.T does it say that the gifts are only given to people with enough faith? Where does it define enough faith? How do you know how much faith I have? You are assuming to know something you don’t, you are begging the question. You are asserting what you are trying to claim. You are saying “because gifts are for today, and because you don’t see or perform them, you must not have enough faith, because gifts are for today”. That doesn’t prove anything, it is just an assertion. Just like I could say that you do not have enough faith to see Santa Clause, thus you do not see him. It proves nothing, stop oppressing people with this statement. So many people who “could not” be healed by faith healers were told, “well you just don’t have enough faith”, not “it’s not God’s will for you to be healed” or “I’m a big fat liar”, but “God cannot work unless you let Him” (Faith Healing and the Sovereignty of God). Besides not proving anything, it is actually not Biblical. God doesn’t need your permission, or faith to work. Sometimes He seemingly doesn’t work because a person doesn’t have faith, but other times He does. Take Paul, Paul didn’t have faith in Jesus, didn’t want anything to do with Jesus, yet that didn’t stop Jesus from intervening and giving Paul faith, and changing him. Yes, God doesn’t need you, you are not God’s keeper or boss. This is the biggest problem with this response, namely it brings God down, and makes Him our servant, and brings man up, and makes him God’s boss.

Think about this too. The early church didn’t believe in Tongues, so they didn’t have “faith” in them, but then bam! Flames of fire and the Holy Spirit descending on them in the upper room, and then they spoke in Tongues. So faith doesn’t need to exist first, meaning faith in that Gift, only Faith in God. Thus, if only Faith in God is enough, there are plenty of people around with enough Faith in God, yet God doesn’t give any “gifts” to them in the way you want. Thus your only two options are: you are wrong, or you are pessimistic about how many people are truly saved, when the Bible seems to say a great number of people will be saved, uncountable number. Since you think there are so few people with true faith now days.

Things Continuationists must respond to:

1. If you are going to claim that Prophecy, Tongues, and Healings exist now, then you also are going to have to claim that Apostles and Prophets exist now. But in order to be an Apostle you must have seen the risen Lord in person. Commonly called the 5 pillars of the church, Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, Pastors, and Evangelists.

2. Prophecy is adding to scripture. The nature of O.T Prophecy is communication directly from God, thus it is added to Scripture. The Canon is closed, God is not adding to the Bible any more, so there is no need for this type of Prophecy. And this type of Prophecy would only be adding to Scripture, and if true, on the same ground as Scripture. It was appropriate for the Apostle’s time because Scripture was not finished yet, but now that its finished, there is no need for it. All we need is Scripture as our authority, and it would be undermined if people were running around Prophesying.

3. Is the Canon closed or not? Is God still adding to scripture or not? If no, then why would he need the gifts of Tongues, Prophecy, and Healing now? If yes, then why haven’t we added any more books to the Bible? Are you saying that the Bible isn’t sufficient now? It must not be if you think that the canon is still open.

4. I think the biggest point is that the Bible seems to teach that God would build His church on the Apostles teachings, and that once He has built the foundation of His church on them, He would no longer call people as Apostles nor gift them like He used to. You must argue against this language, and then defend why God would need to add to His Scripture more, because it seems that Apostles and the gifts were meant for that main purpose, namely the creation of the N.T.

In conclusion your beliefs will ultimately be determined on what you believe on certain issues (I am only going to do either or, although there might be many more beliefs, I am going to take the mains ones:

Either you believe that God has given us Scripture alone as His means to teach us, and spread His Gospel, or you believe that God uses the Bible with Prophecy, Tongues, and Healings. But then why not Church leadership too like the Catholic Church? Or why discount Mormons and other false religions, because they speak in Tongues and Prophecy?

Either you believe the Bible is complete or it isn’t. But if it isn’t how do you know what things should be added, and why haven’t we added anything more?

You either believe God gave certain gifts in power for the building of His church, or you believe He gave those gifts for all church ages, even though there is little use, or evidence that they are here, and have to argue that they are limited because of the lack of faith. But again where is it in the Bible? There are plenty of people with faith, why aren’t they all acting accordingly?

You have to believe that either man is dependent on God for gifts like even Faith Eph. 2:8, or God is dependent on men’s Faith to act. Either God gives us the faith, and then we exercise it and He works, or else He waits for us to have faith (apart from Him) and then He works. One seems pretty Biblical one doesn’t.

In the end, we all can be brothers and sisters in Christ and still disagree on these things. But like I said before I do believe that they will have huge ramifications on your own life, joy, and spiritual growth. Let us be Biblical, and gracious to each other, and seek the truth. Let us lay aside our pride, and where we are wrong admit, and where we are right humbly assert. Let us not be so reliant on experiences for our evidence that we miss what God is actually saying in His holy Word. This article is by not means comprehensive, but is intended to spark conversation and debate. I will respond to any criticisms or questions to the best of my ability.

The Ball is in your court Eric. Have fun!

http://www.imthebeggar.com/index.php/archives/cessationism-is-it-true/

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Promise Keepers, Kenneth Hagan and Freemasonry

Promise Keepers has taken pagan worship one step further. The first exposure of P.K. that I read documented that fact that the Promise Keepers distributed a book filled with sexual imagery of a very perverted sort. This article revolves around the pagan worship of the phallus (male reproductive organ). The story starts in July 1997 when the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry in it’s official publication called ‘The Scottish Rite Journal’ made a call to raise funds to restore the Masonic obelisk in Washington D.C. and also placed it on the cover of the magazine. This vile structure has been worshipped by pagans for centuries and it represents the phallus which is also associated with sun and serpent worship. It was designed by Freemasons, named after a Freemason and the cornerstone laid in Masonic ritual. Therefore it is a sexual, pagan, satanic, Masonic idol that Christians should identify and avoid. But these facts have been ignored and Christians are being deceived about the nature of this idol. Kenneth Hagan followed the Masonic lodge by placing the obelisk on his magazine cover the very next month! I do not believe that this is a coincidence and that a man such as Hagan who is well over 50 years older then me (he just turned 80) and was in Ministry well before I was even born and who has established International Bible colleges would be ignorant of the true nature of the obelisk.

obelisk
This is a photo taken from the ‘Scottish Rite Journal’ published by the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry. 

 

 

The very next month in July 1997, Kenneth Hagan followed after the Mason’s example by placing the Masonic obelisk on the cover of his magazine. The article about the obelisk in the Masonic magazine mentioned that at the Grand Masters Conference held in Tulsa, Oklahoma (the headquarters for both 33rd degree Freemasons Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagan) a call was made to Grand Lodges to raise money to restore the world’s tallest masonry structure. Were Hagan and Roberts present at this meeting? Anyone willing to come forward? Another significant clue is the key word ‘illuminate’ used by the Word of Faith magazine to describe the cover. The Illuminati has been associated with the obelisk a long time before. See the image below, published in 1982, for the obelisk-illuminati connection.

curse

 

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