Lorri MacGregor: Word Faith-Is it the Word or the Faith of the Bible?

The Word of Faith Movement is powerful and influential, with numerous affiliated churches worldwide. Compelling, charismatic leaders preach their peculiar doctrines to enthusiastic and accepting global audiences who view Word Faith as just another denomination within Christianity, but are they really?

Best known for their “prosperity gospel”, they promise riches in this life. W ask and answer the question, “Is Word Faith prosperity really Biblical prosperity?” The answer might surprise you. We let the Bible speak.

However the Word Faith Movement is in far deeper water doctrinally. Certain lines cannot be crossed without becoming outright heresy. These lines include the Person of Jesus Christ. We must not misrepresent our Lord and Savior, or we could be found guilty of presenting “another Jesus” and “another gospel” as the Apostle Paul warned the church.

Has the Word Faith Movement crossed the line? We believe so and you can decide for yourself as this DVD takes a Biblical look at some of their more aberrant teachings. Be prepared to be shocked!

Lorri MacGregor brings over thirty years of Discernment Ministry experience to this expose, having authored two books, ten DVDs, numerious articles and booklets examining various groups.

Lorri was a Jehovah’s Witness for 15 years and together with her husband Keith MacGregor and ministry partners Richard and Cheryl Schatz, serves with MM Outreach a US based non profit organization dedicated to the preaching of the gospel message to lost and hurting people.

Word Faith Is it the Word or the Faith of the Bible? © 2009 MM Outreach Inc

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THREE UNBIBLICAL WORD OF FAITH VIEWS ABOUT JESUS

THREE UNBIBLICAL VIEWS ABOUT JESUS

INTRODUCTION

“But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough” [II Corinthians 11:3-4 ESV].

With the same fear that Paul had for the Corinthian church, I issue this paper. Oh, that believers’ eyes will be opened and that they will not fall prey for the deceit of satan and follow after another Jesus. This paper is in response to teachings propagated by many Word of Faith Movement teachers. A man may be excused if the error he teaches is simply out of pure ignorance however, when they are reproved and continue unrepentant with their teachings, such should be addressed publicly of their error in order to savage the people of God from blasphemy. Many other things may be overlooked or simply be taken as matters of opinions but we cannot do that when it comes to the Person of Jesus. When the image of the true Jesus is distorted we’re dealing with heresies. The doctrine concerning Christ is not something left to our freedom of interpretation seeing that the Bible provides clear teaching of who He is.

Maestroh: Why I Left The Word-Faith Movement PART2

SEE PART 1 HERE

As the spring turned into the summer of 1990, I continued to ponder what precisely was accurate about charismatic teaching. I had, however, noticed a trend: charismatics were every bit as PC as everybody else, only they thought they weren’t. Three issues still occupied my mind: Word-Faith views, the lordship controversy, and eternal security. I was torn on the first, settled strongly on the second, and somewhat settled on the third, having traded in my more Pelagian colors for semi-Calvinistic threads.

I mentioned earlier that I read MacArthur’s book regarding the lordship controversy. In the spring of 1990, his radio show began airing on our local AM station. The broader-reaching FM station added him in the fall, and now it was possible to hear John preach without that interference noise I get when listening to the Cincinnati Reds on WCKY when I’m in Omaha. Because of Mac’s book, I got on his mailing list, which became important when I began receiving his ministry’s magazine, “Masterpiece.” It was quite the glossy little thing, complete with articles, items for sale, and book reviews. In the first one I got, the book reviewed a new tome called “The Agony of Deceit.” This was a polemic written by about a dozen authors criticizing the Faith movement (for the most part). The review was mostly positive, with two negatives: 1) it noted that everyone criticized in the book was a charismatic; and 2) it felt the book was too overly negative and implied that no televangelist had ever succeeded without appealing to common desires.

Maestroh: Why I Left The Word-Faith Movement PART1

I understood the gospel call on November 30, 1987. I was raised a Southern Baptist but never before had the truth of God penetrated my heart. It is unfortunate, however, that the SBC’s emphasis on getting everybody saved – to the exclusion of everything else – led to a stunted upbringing in theological education. Nor was anything about personal relationship really discussed. The emphasis was on believe. In all seriousness, it sounded like Zane Hodges was the source of all things SBC back in the 1980s. That is not to libel him but to simply give you a point of reference.

Upon salvation I turned my back upon everything I’d ever been told. If I couldn’t find it in the Bible, it wasn’t true. Immediately, I rejected eternal security – quite viciously, actually. I knew only two things from the ten years I’d spent in the Baptist church. I needed to believe to be saved, and I could never lose it no matter what I did afterward. A decade in church and that’s ALL I ever learned doctrinally. Well, I did learn that Jesus said, “Thou shalt not drink” and gave a whole list of behavioral requirements to get into Heaven. I also learned that you couldn’t work your way to heaven and yet they’d shame you into doing work at church as if you were the unfaithful servant who buried his gift.

HERESY UNMASKED: PROSPERITY SCRIPTURES IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE

PROSPERITY SCRIPTURES IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE: From HERESY UNMASKED: Analysis of the Word of Faith Movement Doctrines

Seeing that there are many Scriptures employed by the WoF advocated to promote the Prosperity Gospel, I will take on few of them. We will take the time to interpret each passage in its proper context – after having gone through this, you the reader must draw your own conclusion of the other texts employed by these preachers. These Scriptures are not in a certain sequential order.

Genesis 13:2 “And Abram [was] very rich in cattle, in silver and in gold.”

Often this passage is used to say that Abraham who is the father of faith was rich so are we supposed to be. However, careful reading doesn’t promise that because of Abraham all believers also ought to be materially rich. God had blessed him greatly with material wealth because of the promise he made to him (Genesis 12:2-3), this was perhaps also an indication of the spiritual blessings God had reserved in Christ (Hebrew 11:8-19). To use this passage as an example for believers’ wealth is to deliberately read meanings into God’s word and give the Christian false hopes of what God didn’t promise them. The fact that Abraham and many of the patriarchs were rich is not a universal blanket of guarantee that every Christian ought to be materially wealthy. Galatians 4, makes it clear of what kind of blessing God was referring to when referring to Abraham as the father of faith of all who believe in Christ.

Charles Stanley says the Prosperity Gospel is a "deception" and "totally unbiblical"

See 2:35-3:45
In this sermon titled “Dealing With False Teachers”, Dr. Stanley warns us about the dangers of false teachers, how they’re becoming more and more prevalent every day and how the Bible warns that this very thing would happen in the last days.

In Part 3, Dr. Stanley discusses some of the most common false teachings that are being taught today. He also tells how to best equip ourselves to recognize such false teachings.

For more information on this sermon, please visit:

http://www.intouch.org

Burned by the prosperity gospel and the teaching of Pastor Mason Betha

A young lady is burned by the prosperity gospel and the teaching of Pastor Mason Betha which is an associate of Creflo Dollar.

Phynerks Ex-Word of Faith Testimony

I was Wof in Tulsa for almost 13 years. I must admit during that time I probably grew in many areas of my spiritual life more than I had up to that point, but I also must admit that I was also becoming a bigger and bigger ‘flake’ in many areas, too. Each time I’ve given a portion of this testimony, the Wof will say that I was not really Wof during this period of my life. I can only say that with all the honesty I can muster that I was as sincere in my Wof beliefs as I knew to be. I studied under some of the “greats”; Billy Joe Daugherty, Ken Cope, Jerry Seville, Fred Price, Buddy Harrison, Ken Hagin, Capps, and a cast of many more. In fact, we were members of Beverly Hills Baptist in Dallas during the ‘hay days’ of Howard Conaster. I knew the Wof scriptures and I lived them. I realized, however that even though we were ‘believing’, confessing, giving, and serving in the Wof way, our lives were no more blessed or miraculous than some of our Baptist friends. Our group was getting sick, losing jobs, divorcing, and having trials just like the Baptists we knew. Then joy of joys…..my dear wife got pregnant with our second child after three miscarriages! We confessed and praised over the blessing ( we never said a word about the miscarriages – that would have been a bad confession and an admission that we were not living the victorious life we said we were ). Our baby was born big and healthy just like we and the Wof church we attended had confessed. Eighteen hours later, he was gone. There we were alone in the hospital wondering why. After my wife was able to come home we began the process of laying our boy to rest and went to our church and talked with the assoc pastor. During our talk we asked him the question on our hearts….why ? That’s when he went through a number of scriptures to show that we must have allowed satan in with either unbelief, sin, or bad confessions. Since I knew my heart better than him, I knew that I had done the best I could have and it “didn’t work” ! From that day we became more sensitive to the Wof insensitivity towards the pain and suffering around them.

I “stumbled” into a fine Baptist church right there in our neighborhood that we began to worship in. I was amazed at the topics that were emphasized that were never mentioned in the Wof circles we traveled in. Topics such as discipleship, and a daily quiet time. We still have several friends from that time that are Wof. One now suffers from a painful nerve condition that he says he’s healed of. Most of the others have divorced or they are Wof/Christians by association only. The biggest regret from my exposure to Wof was the smug I’m-more-spiritual-than-thou attitude I carried for many years after leaving Wof. I’m certain I hurt many dear people’s feelings during the time after leaving the Wof sect.

Charles Stanley: When We Are Afflicted…

Charles Stanley http://www.suffering.net/afflict.htm

Many think this is a hard saying: “Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus,” but it will be much harder to hear those final words: “Depart from me, (you) cursed, into everlasting fire.”

When the Lord Jesus comes in judgement, all the servants of the cross who conformed themselves to Jesus crucified will approach Christ the judge with full confidence. Why do we then fear to carry the cross?

In the cross we have salvation; in the cross we have life; in the cross we have protection from our enemies. In the cross alone we find our eternal salvation and hope of everlasting life.

We take up our cross, therefore, and follow Jesus, and we will pass into unending life. Everything is funded on the cross and everything depends on our taking up the cross. There is no other way to life and interior peace except the holy way of the cross and our daily dying to self.

Mat 24:23-28 Signs and Wonders: Expository VIDEO SERMON

Today I will be posting 3 awesome educational videos. I spent most of the day yesterday looking at Word of Faith exposure related videos. Given that I have waded through hundreds of hours of videos on this subject selecting the best WoF exposure videos for our 24/7 Linear exposure TV CHANNEL,, THEWORDontheWordofFaithTV,,, I think all three of these videos are some of the best out there. They all three are 40-60 minutes in length BUT well worth the time.

But I like this one the best as it is all exegetical expository preaching. If I lived in London,, this is the church I would go to. Damon

An expository sermon from the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. The teacher is Duncan Forbes from New Life Church, Roehampton, South West London. This video is available on DVD on our website: http://www.newlifelondon.com www.duncanf.blogspot.com

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4876318144052854347&hl=en

Did Jesus descend into Hell or Hades after he died on the cross?

While on the cross for three hours, after all the sins were laid upon him Jesus cried out that God forsook him (looked away, breaking fellowship). After nearly 6 hours on the cross Jesus said that He entrusted His spirit into the Fathers hands before He died. He was totally restored before He died. His Spirit was not committed into anyone’s hands, but the Father’s.

So there is no possibility of him going to hell for any reason of completing the sacrifice or punishment. He did finish on the cross everything that was needed for salvation. If Jesus went to Hell this means the Father did not accept His sacrifice, but instead rejected it.

While Jesus was on the cross He promised the thief on the cross next to him that he would be with Him in paradise that very day (Luke 23:43). If the thief was not in paradise with Him but would have entered into suffering with Jesus and Jesus lied. Paradise was still in the earth called Abrahams bosom until Christ raised and went to heaven (then he took those saints with him to heaven Eph.4:8).

Ex-Faith Healer Mark Haville Explains The Tricks of the Fake Faith Healing Trade

From Faith in Faith
to Faith in Christ

By: Peter Glover

Mark Haville’s is an extraordinary story. Converted into the Pentecostal/Charismatic church he quickly came under the spell of the Word-Faith teaching of men like Kenneth Copeland. But things did not stay that way for Mark…

Still in his mid-20’s, Mark became an itinerant minister travelling the country earning large sums of money through his ability to perform ‘signs and wonders’. Remarkably, he has renounced his former life, his beliefs, and his practices as a Word-Faith minister and is now speaking out boldly against the beliefs and practices of the current Signs and Wonders movement.

(Note: In the text ‘EN’ refers to Evangelicals Now, and ‘MH’ refers to Mark Haville. ‘PG’ is Peter Glover)

EN: “How did you first get involved with Word Faith teaching?”

MH: I was given lots of tapes and books by Kenneth Copeland which everyone was into at my church in North London. I believed that my Christian experience could validate my faith. It convinced me that what I was in was real. I was impressed by the numbers involved, their interest in the media, publications, the money and the general trappings of success – it bred the belief in me that biggest must be best.

Signs And Wonders Movement Exposed: THE VIDEO SERIES THAT EVERY CHRISTIAN MUST SEE!!!

THIS IS THE VIDEO SERIES THAT EVERY CHRISTIAN MUST SEE!!!!!!!

This powerful 2 DVD set contains three full length documentaries exposing the signs and wonders movement. The money scandals, the false miracles and the manipulative methods of the likes of Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, Morris Cerullo, John Avanzini and Rodney Howard-Browne are fully revealed on camera. This shocking material is desperately needed as a cure for the mass-hysteria and worldwide deception being perpetrated by this movement. The DVDs feature expert commentary from leading Christian experts in this field. Coded for all regions (such as USA and UK). Nearly 4 hours total running time.

BUY THE WHOLE SERIES HERE

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AUDIO: Joyce Meyers SHOCKING doctrines

SHOCKING Actual Audio of Joyce Meyers teaching some very strange doctrines. who is the ‘Jesus’ of Joyce Meyers? Did Jesus really cease to be God when He was on the cross as Joyce teaches? hear these strange doctrines from her own mouth from her tape called ‘From the Cross to the Throne’ strangely enough Kenneth Copeland came out with a tape by the SAME NAME many years earlier, teaching the exact same doctrinal errors,( yet Joyce claims she got this information by divine revelation from God ) ALSO hear also how Joyce Meyers agrees with the Jehovah’s Witness false bible version..and so much more.. it saddens us to see how many people are being decieved by such teachings as she is teaching. By the way..strangely this tape of hers is ‘no longer avaliable’ from her ministry, this may be the only place you will hear these actual audios.

Victor's Ex-Word of Faith Testimony

This testimony is from Victor who is originally from India and now lives in the United States.  Victor also runs http://blabitandgrabit.wordpress.com & http://blabitandgrabit.blogspot.com

I am from the South Indian state of Tamil Nadu. The name of my home town is Ramnad. Only for less than 2 years I was under the influence of WoF . When it was first introduced in India many Christians including me were attracted to it. I thought WoF was an “advanced level” of revelation beyond what the traditional pentecostal/charismatic churches had. I concluded that WoF is the “full” gospel and other Christian denominations were lacking something. Then God started opening my eyes. God taught me that He is a Sovereign God and He always works in my life in mysterious ways and always does things more than what I can imagine or think.In the  eighties a Doctor called Justin from India got attracted to the WoF teachings. First he started to air his program from a Radio station which broadcasts Christian programs in some Indian languages from the Seychelles island. Initially he preached against evolution, apologetics and Bible and Archeology.  He was stealth in his approach in introducing the WoF message in India. Therefore many Christians including myself trusted him. He later took my home state by storm (converting the Christians there to WoF) using his seductive powers and charismatic personality.   He said that he would never get sick and he would leave his body at his own will.  By postive confessions about divine healing and health he thought he could live in this earth as long as he can.    He even ridiculed those who were still sick. He was unapproachable in spite of proclaiming a postive message.  Even one of his fellow minister used to tell people who wanted to meet him after the meetings that they need to go and see him with boldness.  He used ot say “You have to believe in your heart and not in your brain.  He was spearheading the WoF movement in my home state.   Many innocent Christians were deceived by his false teachings.  Dr. Justin’s influence was growing rapidly. He moved to state capital and was able to gather 2000 people in less than a year. Shortly after that he got a brain disease and suddenly passed away. He died with 800,000 Indian Rupees in debt and his Church split into 8. This incident puzzled many WoF followers in India. They started wondering why a man who boasted about living in divine health, death at his will and financial prosperity himself died of a disease and with a huge amount of debt (in Indian currency). But in spite of God expressing His disapproval by removing that man from the earth, his followers and relatives never repented. They are still advancing his legacy which was heresy!  A number of individuals were spiritually destroyed by this ferocious wolf.  He also asked Christians not to pray for a need more than once because “a prayer of faith must be prayed only once” and if you pray for the 2nd time it would invalidate the first prayer.

Russell Earl Kelly refutes Kenneth Copeland on Tithing

Rebuttal of Kenneth Copeland on Tithing

BY Russell Earl Kelly, PHD

August 18, 2009

Understanding Tithing, Kenneth Copeland

http://www.kcm.org/real-help/article…anding-tithing

Russell Kelly: When it comes to discussing any doctrine with Word of Faith preachers such as Kenneth Copeland, it is impossible to dialog from the standpoint of biblical hermeneutics (principles of interpretation). Word of Faith ignores context and uses God’s Word as a magic Ouija board to pull meaning out of individual words against God’s teaching.

Copeland: “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 3:10-11).

Kelly: This is the most mis-interpreted text in all of the Bible. God does not and cannot bless New Covenant believers because of their supposed obedience to one of hundreds of Old Covenant commands which were never commanded to the Church after Calvary (1:1, 6; 2:1).
Copeland: This is God Himself speaking and He is saying, “Prove Me in this.” This is the only time in the Word where God instructs us to prove Him, and it is the one area where most people have withdrawn from proving God.

Kelly: First, Malachi was addressed only to Old Covenant national Israel and NOT to New Covenant Christians. Second, the statement by Copeland is false. The whole law was a test –not merely tithing. Obey ALL to be blessed; break ONE to be cursed. The only way to claim blessings from tithing would be to obey the whole Old Covenant law (Neh 10:29; Gal 3:110-13). And, even then, God is working through His New Covenant stipulations. See http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id154.html.
Copeland: Tithing was instituted under the Old Covenant as a way for God to communicate His blessing to His people.
Kelly: Notice that Copeland does not even give “out of context” texts to validate this statement. He merely declares it to be so! That is his specialty. Tithing was instituted in Numbers 18 to sustain Levites and priests for ministering in the sanctuary and for losing land and property inheritance. Copeland gets both: he received the tithe and he owns much property which is against the tithing law.

Measuring Oral Roberts' Influence (by John MacArthur)

Oral Roberts died this week and the obituaries have been abuzz with analyses of his life and legacy. The USA Today headline summed up his contributions this way: “Oral Roberts brought health-and-wealth Gospel mainstream.” The Los Angeles Times gave a similar snapshot of the man: “Oral Roberts dies at 91; televangelist was pioneering preacher of the ‘prosperity gospel'”

But Christianity Today‘s lead blogger, Ted Olsen, disagreed. He responded with a post titled “Why the .” The long subtitle at the head of Olsen’s post explained: “The ‘faith-healer’ (who hated the term) may have done much to mainstream Pentecostalism, but he was no architect of the Prosperity Gospel.”

Olsen’s argument, essentially, is that the real founder and mastermind of prosperity doctrine was not Oral Roberts but Kenneth Hagin, “who is far more widely recognized as the man who joined Pentecostalism with the Faith Movement (also called ‘Word-Faith,’ or derogatively, the Prosperity Gospel or ‘Health and Wealth’ gospel).”

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 4

God in a Box, WoF Quotes, Part 4 by Yodas Prodigy

Here is PART ONE, PART, TWO, PART THREE

God is not sovereign in Word Faith Theology.

Below are some issues that Dr Marinelli should have grappled with including the following concepts espoused by the Word Faith Fathers:

E.W. Kenyon

“It seems that God is limited by our prayer life, that He can do nothing for humanity unless someone asks Him to do it. Why this is, I do not know.” (“The Two Kinds of Faith,” p. 42).

Kenneth Hagin

a. “Originally, God made the earth and the fullness thereof, giving Adam dominion over all the works of His hands. In other words, Adam was the god of this world. (Kenneth Hagin, “The Believer’s Authority, 1987, p. 19)

b. Therefore, Adam had dominion upon this earth and in this world. He was originally, in a sense, god of this world. But Satan came and lied to Adam. Adam committed high treason and sold out to Satan. Then Satan became the god of this world. (Hagin, “The Art of Intercession,” 1980, p.3; reissued as “The Art of Prayer” both 1992 and 2000 editions contain the same teaching.

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 3

God in a Box, A Review Part 3 by Yodas Prodigy

HERE ARE PART ONE AND PART TWO

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

Satan needed God’s permission to attack Job. Despite the crowing of Word Faith supporters, Satan admitted that Job had a hedge of protection around him (Job 1:9). It is obvious that God removed that hedge of protection in order for Satan to attack.

Remember also, God told Satan everything of Job’s is yours. Do not touch him. So the first attack was against everything that Job had except his wife. Why, because Satan did not have permission to do anything else. The second time, Satan had permission to attack Job’s flesh. But he could not kill him. Each time, God was asked by Satan for permission.

Job is far more than Dr. Marinelli can understand using his Word Faith perspective. He was a man who had control of his thoughts, Job 31:1. His sacrifices for his children are considered acts of fear. Yet, Abraham and Noah made the same types of sacrifices. See Genesis 8:20; 15:9-10. Also note that each time Job was attacked, he did not sin (Job 1:22 and 2:10) Even when God had chastised Job for his self-righteousness, God did not require a sacrifice for Job, only his friends (Job 42:7). I would like to also point out, each time Dr. Marinelli quoted Job when one of his friends were speaking, they were considered to be errant by God.

HERESY UNMASKED: Analysis of the Word of Faith Movement Doctrines

As the return of the Lord Jesus Christ is nearing and the age is also closing in on the schemes of satan – he is working fast around the human clock to spread his deceptions and heresies.

While it is evidently quite difficult for Satan to lure believers into heinous sinful activities – he’s found other means of getting to them right from their pulpits. He is using the means of heresies and even heretic preachers to divert Christians from their primary mission – God.

The Word of Faith Movement has been at the very front of promoting doctrines or teachings that are nowhere taught in Scripture. These men and women distort many passages of the Bible to propagate their own ideas rather than the clearly revealed Word of God.

Click on the picture to download your free 60-page PDF Ebook!

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 2

Here is PART ONE

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

I quote from the Westminster Confession Faith (Dr. Marinelli also used the W.C.F. as a source):

God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass (Rom_9:15, Rom_9:18; Rom_11:33; Eph_1:11; Heb_6:17): yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin (Jam_1:13, Jam_1:17; 1Jo_1:5), nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (Pro_16:33; Mat_17:12; Joh_19:11; Act_2:23; Act_4:27, Act_4:28). WCF 3:1

Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions (Mat_11:21, Mat_11:23; Act_15:18; 1Sa_23:11, 1Sa_23:12), yet hath He not decreed any thing because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions (Rom_9:11, Rom_9:13, Rom_9:16, Rom_9:18). WCF 3:2

Word of Faith: Chad Marinelli; God in a Box, A Review Part 1

God in a Box, A Review Part 1 by Yodas Prodigy

Here is PART TWO

Opening Statement

My review is in regards to the work authored by Chad Marinelli, “God in a Box?” Dr. Marinelli offers an apologetic for the Word Faith Movement’s view on God’s sovereignty and how man fits in to that sovereignty.

Dr. Marinelli’s Thesis: http://www.light-after-darkness.org/index.php?page=wof

You will note that I did not cover the entire work of Chad Marinelli. It would have taken an equal volume of effort to respond to all of his errors.

The Review

“The Cloudy Waters” is the title of chapter one. I will demonstrate that it is Dr. Marinelli who is muddying the waters and not those who consider themselves orthodox believers.

TESTIMONY: The Word of Faith in Romnad, India

http://forums.carm.org/v/showpost.php?p=5714656&postcount=46

WoF activities in my home town: (Romnad, India)

Acts 4:20 – We cannot stop telling about everything we have seen and heard.

One young man near my native place went to a WoF Bible College in my state capital (known as Apostolic Faith Tabernacle). He came back and started a Church in my native place. He also lived in the same street and from our house we could see his entire house.

He started aggressively promoting the WoF teachings. If someone says to him that they were sick he would immediately yell back – oh no! don’t say that! You will get what you say. He targeted one Doctor in the town who is a distant relative of mine. He gave that Doctor’s family “a package deal” which he presented as the “full” Gospel. They all confessed Jesus as their Lord according to Romans 10:9 and got “saved” (without any repentance). Then the WoF Pastor introduced them the Prosperity message as part of the “full” Gospel and promised 100 fold return. Then that Doctor gave him a piece of land to him. The Doctor in spite of getting “saved” according to Romans 10:9 went from smoking to drugs. His marriage broke. This is what the WoF pastors do in India. They target either nominal Christians or members of other Christian denominations who are Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers, Government officials, college professors and wealthy business people. In other words they find out potential donors who can support their “ministry” and offer them the package deal.

They don’t go rural side or to poor people because they don’t have enough money and resources. Their prosperity magic does not work with poor people. After deceiving rich people they cling to them for everything. Rich people are usually appointed as elders in the Church and given important responsibilities. They don’t even bother if their rich supporters are genuinely repented and had a life changing experience! As long as they donate money these WoF preachers are happy with them. Doesn’t it remind about wolves. Wolves use the sheep as a food source (or resource). If a death or some important even happens in a poor believer’s home these WoF pastors won’t visit them but delegate their junior pastors or associates to visit them. If a death or any other important event happens in a rich person’s house the WoF preachers give them top priority. Even during normal days they visit the rich people often, let their wives to befriend their wives and let their children play with their children. The poor people are given only a few minutes of the Pastor’s time!!! This is how the WoF movement “plants” churches in India. Someone might say oh, these kind of incidents are isolated and not widespread and it is too much of a generalization to give these examples etc etc. But the truth it is wide spread and it had become norm in India’s WoF circles. These are not isolated incidents. That is the reason most of the Indian WoF Churches exist only in big cities where they can find rich people to support their ministries which are in many situations family enterprises or personal kingdoms.

My interview with Dr. Russell Kelly on Tithing and the Word of faith.

THIS SHOW IS AVAILABLE FOR LISTENING OR DOWNLOAD AS A PODCAST OR MP3 ON THE BloagTalkRadio PAGE

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Tithing expert Dr. Russell Earl Kelly from http://www.tithing-russkelly.com

Dr. Kelly is the author of the taboo shattering and controversy stirring book,,,

“Should the Church Teach Tithing? A Theologian’s Conclusions about a Taboo Doctrine”.

Dr. Russ has been on a CBS special about tithing. In charisma magazine, and has even been in the wall street journal. Besides his groundbreaking book on tithes. He has one on the SDA (as he was once seventh day Adventist). And several teaching essays and videos. And his books have made a big stir and are reviewed and referred to everywhere on the net and other material and books about tithing.

BEST OF ALL he is ALL about GRACE GIVING and NOT tithing. He is very much strong against the WoF being a highly educated Baptist preacher and theologian.Dr Kelly also has a TITHING study group on yahoo groups. It is likely that some of the group members there will call in and participate. They are all very knowledgeable about the hugely controversial and taboo subject of TITHING. Dr. Russ makes no bones about it. TITHING IS A TOOL taken out of it’s Old Testaments context to enslave people to pastors pocket books to help them build mega churches.

Dr. Russ will join Damon and John as we talk about TITHING, the Word of Faith and the false prosperity gospel. There is way more to a study of Tithing than you could ever imagine. And don’t assume just because your church does not GUILT YOU INTO GIVING using God’s OT law,,, don’t assume that all churches are the same. AND THE WoF could not exist apart from their false teaching on TITHES and their illusive and contrived appearance of prosperity through giving. IF IT WHERE TRUE,, THE TV PREACHERS WOULD BE GIVING TO YOU!!!!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-word-on-the-word/2009/03/13/twotwof-group-radio-episode-2-tithing-the-word-of-faith-and-prosperity-gospel-dr-russel-kelly

We will feature many of Dr. Russ’s work on our wordpress.com GROUPBLOG at http://THEWORDontheWordofFaithINFOblog.com

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Dr. Russell Earl Kelly refutes Word of Faith Apologist Tom Brown on tithing.

Rebuttal of Tom Brown Ministries on Tithing

http://www.tbm.org/is_tithing_new_testament.htm

Brown: Tithing began before the law was introduced.

Kelly: The fact that tithing existed before the law proves nothing. Idolatry, child sacrifice and temple prostitution also existed before the law in all lands of Abraham’s day, including Canaan. The fact that something is very old and very common does not make it an eternal moral principle.

Brown: The Law simply regulated the tithe.

Kelly: No. The tithe of Abraham and Jacob had its definition from pagan Babylon and was not the same thing as a holy tithe of ONLY FOOD from a holy land miraculously increased by Yahweh and returned to Yahweh. The two definitions are very different.

Brown: Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, 400 years before the time of Moses and the Law,

Kelly: Why? The Bible does not say that Abraham did it voluntarily. There is just as much biblical evidence from Genesis 14:21 that he gave in obedience to common Canaanite tradition to his local priest-king, or as a passage tax.

Dr. Russell Earl Kelly refutes Dr. Chad Marinelli on Tithing

Dr. Marinelli is the owner of wordoffaithanswers.com

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Marinelli: I have never seen a hard and fast rule of 10% explicitly stated in the New Testament as a commandment.

Kelly: That is because none exists. If it did, and, if tithing were legitimate, then tithe-recipients would not be allowed to own property and would have to kill anybody who dared to worship God directly per Numbers 18:21-29.

Marinelli: This matter of tithing is similar to the discussion of the Sabbath (See my Q&A about the Sabbath). The Sabbath was a type of our rest of faith (Hebrews 4), and has been since replaced with the first day of the week for worship (Acts 20:7).

Kelly: The Sabbath of Hebrews 4:3 is a type of the Creation Sabbath which lasted until Adam sinned. The 7th day Sabbath was only given to national Israel per Ex 31:13-17. Sunday does not replace the Sabbath commandment as part of the Law. According to Hebrews 8:13 the entire Old Covenant Law vanished at Calvary.

Marinelli: The New Testament shouts aloud of our freedom in Christ. We aren’t bound by ritualistic observances.

Kelly: Tithing was the most important ritualistic statute-ordinance-ceremonial law because it enabled the priesthood to exist. It was not a moral law.

1 Peter 1:18-19 — Is our redemption based on Christ suffering in hell?

This is 2 of 33 Word of Faith responses from “Correcting the Cults – Expert responses to their scripture twisting” By Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes. Bookmark the site and come back for this series. PART 1 IS HERE

1 Peter 1:18-19 — Is our redemption based on Christ suffering in hell, as some word of faith teachers argue, and not on His shedding of blood on the cross.

1Pe 1:18-19  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Misinterpretation: Word-Faith teaches say that Christ shed blood on the cross did not atone for our sins. Kenneth Copeland, for example, says “Jesus went into hell to free mankind from the penalty of Adams high treason….When his blood poured out, it did not atone…. Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God.” (personal letter from Kenneth Copeland; cited in McConnell, 1988, 120).

Cherie's Ex-Word of Faith Testimony

Cherie is the author of the Word of faith NO MORE blog.

I gave my life to the Lord in August of 1999. My best friend attended Word of Faith Christian Center in Michigan and led me in the prayer of repentance and into the WoF movement. I was living in California at the time and her Bishop had established churches all over the world. She led me to one of his churches on the west coast and that’s pretty much how it began. I also started to watch TBN and other networks in order to be “fed.” I wasn’t raised in the church and had no biblical foundation so everything that I learned in WoF I thought was the truth. I must admit that I sensed that something was wrong from the beginning. Never the less I continued to attend the faith church and basically thought everything that I experienced was normal.

2004- I attended the laypersons bible school that was established by the church. They took the curriculum from RHEMA and modeled the school after it. Our Bishop graduated from RHEMA and all of his children went there. He in turn established a Bible Training Center in Southfield Michigan which has educated thousands of pastors who are now pastoring his various churches. I considered attending RHEMA or BTC but I did not.

Video interview of Justin Peters

httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8laOGcHby-w

MARK 11:23-24 — Did Jesus promise to give literally anything we ask in faith?

This is 1 of 33 Word of Faith responses from “Correcting the Cults -Expert responses to their scripture twisting” By Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes. Bookmark the site and come back for this series.

MARK 11:23-24 — Did Jesus promise to give literally anything we ask in faith?

Mar 11:23-24  For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

MISINTERPRETATION: On the face of it, this verse seems to be saying that God will grant literally any request we make of Him as long as we believe. Word-Faith teachers often cite this verse in support of their views, (Hagin, 1972, 27-28).

CORRECTING THE MISINTERPRETATION: Limitations on what God will give are indicated both by the context and by other text, as well as by the laws of Gods own nature and the universe.